I've been thinking about the list of guns I want. Seems to change all the time. Should I list them? Think I will...

1. Browning 1886 SRC w/tang sight(enroute)
2. Winchester M92 SRC .45 Colt with Tang Sight and maybe a few extras... (clone from Steve's Gunz)
3. Savage 99, straight grip, brass spool (maybe), .250-3000 OR .260 Rem OR .358 Winchester OR .300 Savage, receiver sight
4. Winchester 71 in .348 Winchester (what else?) with a good receiver sight.
5. Winchester 1895 SRC in .30-40 or .303 British with Lyman 38 receiver sight.
6. Marlin M39 Mountie (already have the Williams Foolproof Sight!).
7. Ruger 4 5/8" Bisley Vaquero, blued, .45 Colt. Might install Tru-Ivory grips.
8. Remington Model 8 in .30 Remington (might be coming already!). Want to convert to trapper length and install a good receiver sight.

I know that most people know how difficult it is to stop pursuing a hobby (an obsession, really) once you start. Of course, some people have no idea, more's the pity for them... Anyway, as a sub-obsession of shooting I really like the Remington Model 8 and 81 rifles. I've been wanting to collect them and mostly been able to avoid falling victim to my baser desires in this area. I did know that this could not last.

I've bid on a Remington Model 8 in .30 Remington on Gunbroker.com. My bid isn't all that high, $125 but follow the link and look at the gun. You'll be astonished!

Well, my thinking was that I could just do a little work to it and then have my second Model 8. My first
Model 8 was my dad's and before him, his dad's and before grandpa, his brother's! This rifle has been around in only 3 generations. Anyway, it is the rifle that is the source of the lusting after Model 8s and 81s and so I bid on this rifle that looks like crap. Of course, the seller has it listed as a .30-30 (?) and says it went on auction because it wouldn't chamber a round (a .30-30?) but I know it is really a .30 Remington of different shape and with a rimless case. I figure that I can get a new forearm from GunParts Corp., ammo from Buffalo Arms, reloading dies for CH4D, and maybe a peep sight somewhere along the way.

My First Model 8 in .35 Remington with Lyman Receiver Sight

Another thing I want to do is to convert it into a "trapper" with a 16" barrel. I know of somebody who has done that and I'd frankly like to copy his idea. I would then have the gun re-blued (why not?) and refinish the stock and forearm so that they match better than they probably would.

These guns are fun but hard to find at a price like this that allows one to play around with gunsmithing projects. I'm looking forward to this one.

Hobbies are fickle things indeed. About 1994, I sold my AR-15 and got hooked on Contender carbines. While I still love them and use the, 21 barrels later I'm running out of expansion possibilities. I do have 2 pistol barrels (and grips for them) but I just never could get excited about the Contender pistol. From the time the Contender came out, I'd been thinking of it with a long barrel in fun cartridges. It was everything I'd always thought it would be and it does help one experience cartridges one would otherwise have to order an entire gun (at attendant cost) to shoot. Things went well indeed but when barrels started going over $300-350 and requiring a 6-16 week wait PLUS poor quality control by the makers (giving you not quite what you ordered) I started losing interest in expanding the herd.

Then, I found Leverguns.com and their forum. There are lots of wonderful folks over there. They love and know their leverguns and are willing to share info and availability of guns. Truly, they enable the addiction! Now I am truly addicted.

I'm so addicted that I visit Gunbroker.com and AuctionArms.com daily. My tendancy, aside from the current guns I own, is to the saddle ring carbines or trappers. These compact, powerful and useful guns probably epitomize the gun that won the west, the saddle rifle of the cowboy, etc. They are full of western "romance" and when I was a kid, THE gun to have. I guess this is why the guns that interest me are so difficult to find at prices I can afford! Still, I plug away.

These are the three guns I currently own, shown together

and they are (from top to bottom): A Marlin 1894C in .357 Magnum, Marlin 336T in .30-30 and Winchester M94 in .30WCF (.30-30). I've no preference of maker but what I do want is an example of certain types. High on my priority list is a Winchester M92, a Winchester 1886 and a Savage 99. I will probably want a Winchester or Browning 71 as well.

I've already written about my desires for a M92 SRC or SRC Trapper. I was thinking of a button-mag (or half-mag) but have thought better of it. Still, I will be going to Steve's Gunz as he will buy the gun, perform the smoothing up and install the tang peep sight and then ship to my dealer. A very smooth transaction (and rifle action) is possible by doing this.

I think it is a little more than coincidental that Gunbroker.com has had listings for 3 of the Browning 1886 SRCs in .45-70. These are absolutely beautiful firearms and well made by Miroku of Japan (these people are doing Winchester's current 1892 leveractions). With a good aperture receiver sight, I think these would be a great rifle that would do it all for the North American hunter of big game.

The Savage 99 is an action I want that has to conform to my preferences. I want a straight grip, aperture receiver sight, and chambered to either the .250-3000, .260 Remington, or .358 Winchester. Kinda peculiar in today's world. Most people want to scope sight such a gun, particularly in the .250-3000 or .260 Remington chamberings. By the way, if you don't already know, the .260 Remington will be a custom deal. Savage never chambered a 99 for the .260 Remington.

Now, with the Winchester 71, one doesn't have much choice. It will be pistol gripped AND it will come in one chambering, .348 Winchester. However, this is a perfect cartridge for the aperture sight and one can learn to live with the pistol grip and curved lever.

Yes, indeed, hobbies are fickle things.

Well, it has been some time since my last comments. Some things have happened and I've been really busy during the summer. Don't quite know why, but the wife expects to do something other than mess with guns.

I've bought a third lever action rifle. Yes, I've gotten that fever, too. This is my new (to me) Marlin M336T. Made in 1982, this version has an 18" barrel. I'd been looking for one and when I saw it for only $260 on GunBroker.com I knew I had to get it. Wasn't planning for it, I had other higher priority projects, but couldn't pass up the opportunity. This was the gun I wanted when I bought my 336C in 1970 but couldn't find one then either!

As you can see, it has been around a bit. I added the Lyman 66LA receiver sight before taking the picture (and the sight slot blank) but had yet to remove the sling swivel stud and stud band. Those sling swivel studs are now gone. Removing them presented another problem.

I don't know why but many, many shooters seem to think that the Marlin trademark bullseye in the stock is the designated installation point for the rear sling swivel stud. In fact it is the WORST place to screw in your Uncle Mike's sling swivel stud. The plastic will break up far quicker than the wood of the butt. Also, please, predrill the hole before screwing the stud in. It makes for a much neater job. Well some past owner had done this as well. When I removed the stud, I had a gaping hole where the bullseye had once been. The stud's screw had completely broken the bullseye up and left a 5/8" hole to fill. I am thinking that what I'll do is to fill a lot of it with JB Weld and insert a "button" of deer horn. In the center of the deer horn I'll drill a hole and glue in a short piece of copper wire. I'll leave it standing proud of the stock and then file it down to match the stock configuration. Should give me a very unique bullseye!

I'm also thinking of refinishing the stock (and slightly thinning the forearm) and staining it darker. I think I'd like a darker stock. That would make an excellent January/February project.

I currently have 3 leveraction rifles. I've owned others but they had to be sold or were traded for others.  There are some similarities. First, all are straight gripped. It just seems more natural to me. Maybe, I've been too heavily influenced by all the cowboy westerns I watched or maybe it really does feel better when working the action. I don't know, but I prefer the straight grip style.

Second, they are all fitted with a receiver or aperture sight. The top and bottom guns have the Williams Foolproof Receiver Sight and the "new" rifle in the middle has the Lyman Model 66LA sight. I really prefer an aperture sight on these guns. The sight gives extended sight radius, is quick in the field, I have LONG experience with it (over 40 years continuous use including military use), it is compact and doesn't interfere with handling the gun and it is light.

Unfortunately, I had a bit of a problem with the Lyman sight. Not to say that they are all like this but this one is a disappointment. I've used them before with satisfaction but in this case, the elevation plate screw stripped the threads and can't be tightened and secure the elevation plate. This is necessary because the Lyman sight has a plate that can be "zeroed" or slid up and down relative to the marking on the sight base so that you can dismount and remount the sight with the quick release OR change the sight elevation and return to the "standard" setting. I did write Lyman, but I am no going to return the sight. I will just epoxy the elevation plate in place and leave it there. Frankly, I may not buy another new Lyman 66 sight.

In contrast, the Williams sights have never given me a moment's problem. They have been utterly reliable. Not only do I have them on the 2 leverguns shown above but also on a semi-sporterized (read bubbaized if you prefer) M96 in 6.5x55 and have had them on all but 2 of my other leverguns. Those included the dearly departed 336C and a Marlin 1894 in .44 Mag. Only a Wincester M94 in .44 Mag didn't stay around long enough to get the FP sight treatment. The other rifle already had a tang peep and didn't need another 2 holes drilled for the FP. I wisely kept the sight when I was forced to sell the rifle.

Now, I guess I've really succumbed to the disease of leveractionitis. I've gotten it in my head to do a button-mag Winchester M92 carbine in .45 Colt. After it was suggested by a fellow disease "sufferer", I am fixated on a "trapper" version with a 16" barrel AND I would like it to have a color-case hardened receiver. Steve of Steve's Gunz will do the work and has made some cogent suggestions of his own. This will be a full on custom gun and it will no doubt take some time to get the money together.

One of the driving issues is portability in a vehicle and usability or even possessability in various jurisdictions. The short barrel addresses the first 2 issues and the 16" or "long enough" barrel addresses the latter. The .45 Colt cartridge is usable in factory guise as an effective self-defense round but can be loaded up for deer hunting and longer range use. The button-mag will give sufficient capacity for self-defense use but will not hamper the handling characteristics. The carbine butt will be more RV and truck friendly even if it is carried in a case. There will be no sharp points to scratch or puncture the more delicate features in those vehicles and so it won't arouse the wrath of she-who-must-be-0beyed.

Soon it will be hunting season and we'll all be down the road for some fun. I hope to have photos this year.

In the most recent issue of Rifle magazine, Dave Scovill has made some comments in his monthly column. Those comments are directed at some who Mr. Scovill feels might be expecting too much of the Marlin rifles. I believe, from reading the article, that he feels that way based on questions on conversions that he receives. He also posts a chart showing common lever gun rounds and the SAAMI pressure standards for those rounds.

This has caused no end of comments in a topic on the Leverguns.com forum. Many, including yours truly, have weighed in with words of wisdom regarding Mr. Scovill's article. Some are actually wise, some aren't. I feel as though I've been invited to a wrestling match with a pig. You know, you both get dirty but the pig LOVES it. That's what has made me think about this subject of cartridge suitability for the Marlins, most particularly the M336. It has also made me rethink my work with the .38-55.

I'll start by saying I'm not going to disappoint any readers of this blog or people who think that the .38-55 can be safely loaded to 42,000 psi same as the .30-30. I will continue to do so. In actions which will accomodate the 7-30 Waters (45K psi) and the .30-30 or .32 Special (42K psi) I think it is logical, reasonable and safe to load the .38-55 to 42K psi and I think that means that my load of 32 gr. of RL-7 under the 255 gr. Barnes Original or Stone Fence bullet is safe and within these standards.

However, I do not believe a couple of things that some do seem to believe or know. First, case shape does affect breach thrust in actions where the case head does not contact a standing breach. This includes the leverguns. In the leverguns, the bolt acts as a piston and pushes against other moving parts such as the locking lugs/bolts and over the distance of the length of the bolt can have a greater affect on the action.

The second is that the Contender, is a different animal and in that "case", where the case head contacts the standing breach (a part of the frame, not a moving part), the surface area of the case head and how much pressure is actually transfered to the breach is what is important.

This has been debated ad naseum over the years but I'm going to take a stand that I will follow in how I handle my own guns and reloading. I'm not going to rechamber the Marlin M336 for cartridges which produce in excess of 45K psi.

My first deer ever was taken with a Marlin M336 .30-30 (if I can find the serial number of that gun I would, foolish youth sent it on it's way in a trade...[:I]) with a Williams Foolproof Receiver Sight. My dad bought it for me (although I'd thought I'd saved enough for it and that it was MY money that crossed the counter) and it was bought used from a Western Auto (remember those?) in Harrisonburg, VA. I still go by the spot I shot that deer every year, usually carrying Dad's gun... Anyway, it was a buck that field dressed at 120 pounds and had a little 5 point (eastern count) rack. My dad drove it off a clear cut and I shot it at about 40 yards. I think that was 1970... We found a 20 gauge Foster slug just under the skin and just behind the rib cage and that wound was all healed up. Lots of fine memories in that one hunt...

I often wonder if Dad knew just what that one event would mean to me over the years. In Korea, when fall came and I couldn't go home to hunt, I'd often day dream of that hunt. Of course, it wasn't just killing my first deer or first buck or using my new-to-me rifle, it really was about sharing the whole experience with my dad. I have to say that I got punished about as much as any other kid I knew and that my dad wasn't one to spare the rod but I've no bad memories of him at all. I deserved every spanking I ever got. What I do remember best are all the times we were in the outdoors. When dad kept me from going over the side of the 120 foot fire tower, or when we were in the 16' open motorboat crossing Lake George in 6 foot waves (Dad couldn't swim) with water coming in the boat and all of us bailing... Come to think of it, Dad wasn't bailing, he was sitting in his usual position, slightly hunched over (he was 6'+ tall) with both hands firmly grasping the seat. Maybe he was scared, it didn't seem so at the time. I remember the long hikes in Kentucky, West Virginia and Virginia. I remember the fishing even when I was 6 at Spruce Knob Lake in WV or on the river on Grandpa's farm. I remember the sight of my dad coming in from fighting a forest fire still wearing his grimy white T shirt (they were ALL white then and with no logos) to take me to the Elkins, WV Forest Festival. I remember oooohing and aaaahing over the live otters in the tank at the WV Game Commission display while Dad talked with people he knew (probably about the fire). I remember seeing parades from his shoulders and having trouble standing afterwards. The thing about Dad was that there was a lot to remember about him. I guess I was kinda lucky.

FINALLY remembered to carry the Speed-Six to the range (it is the bedside gun) and the results are... (drum roll please)... 1359 fps avg for 648 fpe with an AD of 39 fps and an SD of 51.

I have to say that I have one chamber than consistently gives lower velocities and one that consistently gives higher velocities with every load.

Also, I shot for group at 25 yards. I got 3 and 3½ inch groups for 6 rounds. This is a romper stomper compared to most loads I've been using. When I want something really powerful in a handgun I go to a .4something! Again, the 180 gr. bullet load gave 1179 fps for 556 fpe from this gun. I did shoot it for groups too, but at 50 yards and it gave 4-6" groups at that range.

The 180 gr. Rem SJHP load went into a 1.75" group at 100 today. I think this is remarkable given the sights (particularly the front bead). Another interesting point is that zeroed, the Williams Foolproof is resting on top of the receiver! One would truly need a higher front sight with this gun and an aperture sight when using lighter bullets. I've never needed to replace the front sight on any other levergun after mounting an aperture sight. This gun might be the exception. If so, it will get a sourdough front just .002-.003" taller. I think that is all the extra front sight it would need to zero that barn burning 158 gr. XTP load that goes over 2000 fps.

Some additional thoughts today...

About primers, the CCI500s and 550s performed about the same for me in the loading with Lil'Gun and the 158 gr. XTPs but NOT the same for the 180 gr. SJHPs. I don't know why, but the extreme spread was halved by switching the magnum primer with the 180s (with corresponding reductions in AD and SD numbers) while no noticeable difference occured with the 158 gr. XTP load. If I was a betting man, I'd bet on the CCI550s (or perhaps another magnum primer like the Winchester) as the place to START not to finish.

Another thought is that the 158 XTP HPs will not handle the velocity that the 158 XTP FPs will. I'd expect that the HPs would not be deer suitable but the FPs would be. I don't think that the FPs would be the rompin' stompin' pistol load though... So my all rounder will the 180 which is going slow enough not to blow a turkey all to heck, shoots flat enough that I can utilize the gun to the range the sights are useful (without needing a new, higher front sight), and will work wonders on deer and coyotes as well. If I have to use it for AP work, well the 158 won't be that much of a hinderance, will it? However, if I had already loaded all those rounds with the XTP FP, I might rethink my plan...

As to accuracy, well, the sights are some handicap for grouping but fast to hit with. Still, I cut cloverleafs at 50 yards, 2" at 100 seems to be easy.

BTW, I've heard that Buffalo Bore uses Lil'Gun in their loads and yes I believe their figures. Others report similar results with Lil'Gun. They also up their loads but I won't. I want 100% function, not riding the ragged edge of success. I adapt by aiming and stalking closer. Not always as "successful" but always fun and rewarding. Lil'Gun beats H110 all hollow in my .357s does really well in my .41 carbine and is about the same as H110 in my .44 Mag.

Marlin 1894C .357 Magnum

Well, I've received my new (to me) Marlin M1894 .357 Mag from LubbockDave. Hoorah. Actually better than described, well cared for and smoooooooooooth from use. Does shoot a little high now that I've got a Williams Foolproof Receiver Sight installed (about 10 minutes after I picked it up ). I think it will probably shoot POA or close to it with my intended load of Lil'Gun and the Remington 180 gr. SJHP. Yeah, I got it at 9:30 and was at the range by 10:30!

I looked high and low for a pre-crossbolt safety (which I might have mentioned that I detest ). I think it is actually a better gun than my old (and departed ) M1894 in .44 Mag. It is as accurate (even with the .38 Special FBI load) at 50 yards.

For those wondering if LubbockDave is fit to do business with you'll only get a big thumbs up from me. Modest description with complete photos, what I think was a fair price, fast shipment (and apparently good packing! ), and darn nice correspondence about it all to boot. I think he'll do to ride the range with.

This was my first net purchase and I was a bit nervous about it. Not because of the seller but because of the system.

It certainly IS a lot of fun. I've got the factory rear sight off and a dovetail filler in. I was really surprised by how well it shot (Microgroove barrel and all) the Federal .38 Special FBI load. I was adjusting sights but got a couple three cloverleafs at 50 yards. Swaged bullets never worked well in my 1894 .44 Mag but they did pretty good from this gun.

125 gr. Federal factory load (in fact I used up what I had) and they averaged 2068 fps. I also loaded a few (had some 6 primed cases ready, the bulk of my brass is in the trim stage) with Lil'Gun and the Remington 180 SJHPs. For MY rifle the bullets have to be seated so that the cannelure is just a shade below the case mouth (as trimmed). Easier to fix by trimming the cases a bit shorter than rolling a new cannelure.

With Federal .38 Special "FBI" load of 158 gr. swaged bullet, I got about 1100 fps and 2 inch groups at 50 yards. My bead almost covers the 50 yard pistol slow fire pistol target center I was using.

The 15 gr. Lil'Gun under the 180 gr. Remington SJHP does 1669 fps for 1114 fpe from my gun. My old 125 gr. SJHP loads over H110 did 1978 fps for 1108 fpe. These are just about as fast as the Federal factory 125s and shoot high just like the Federal ammo (no surprises there!).

I also ran the 158 gr. XTP over 18 gr. of Lil'Gun (CCI500 primer) over the chronograph. Temps were about 63-65 degrees. Average velocity was 1989 fps for 1389 fpe with an AD of 8 and SD of 10. These even beat the 125 gr. bullet reloads using 2400 I had!

Now this was with the HP version but I've no doubt it will do as well with the FP version which will probably hold up to these velocities and contact with actual game.

I also tried the 15 gr. of Lil'Gun under the 180 gr. Remington SJHP with the CCI550 (magnum small pistol) instead of the CCI500. Avg velocity was up slightly to 1675 fps with an AD of 15 and SD of 21. However the extreme spread (ES) was cut in half! I bought 500 of these and will no doubt load up the rest over the CCI550.

The 158s will shoot a bit flatter and have an extended point blank range over the 180s but the 180s have a lot going for them. They will probably penetrate a bit better, they were cheaper by half, they use less powder, they are just as accurate and they shoot flat enough given how much that front bead covers at range. I won't have to get a higher front sight either.

I also had 4 old (1975 vintage?) Glaser safety slugs for the .38 Special. These went 1986 fps (heck I was going to shoot them up anyway and have almost forgotten just how expensive they were at the time ).

The more I shoot it the more I like this gun. My old M1894 .44 Mag didn't have a barrel band at the forearm tip and always looked a bit odd to me. So that feature is an improvement in my book. Also, the 18½" barrel of this model seems to make it handy and balance like it ought to. I want to use this for my "truck gun" which is used on the very odd coyote (suicidal is more like it), feral dogs and cats, foxes, groundhogs, and maybe a deer now and again. Have yet to take a turkey with a "truck gun" but I see more turkeys from the truck than on stand! May have sold yet another of those Marlins! A couple of "spectators" were really excited to see those numbers. Of course, they had to try it out as well and went through most of the rest of my ammo.

I thought I would post some notes on my 10mm Auto barrel from posts I made on the Specialty Pistols forum.

I have a 14" that I got from the old obsolete barrels list. I put a Choate extension on it and use it as a carbine barrel. I had some interesting results from my chrono run on my 14" barrel.

Load/velocity/energy/AD/SD
10 gr. Unique 155 XTP/1156/460/55/67
155 XTP Factory/1457/731/5/7
180 Hydroshock Factory/1093/477/39/54
180 Rem HP Factory/1180/556/20/27
10 gr. BlueDot 180 BullX TC/1510/911/10/16

Factory ammo sure ain't a barn burner!

Reference, pierced primers. This is interesting. I noted that some loads, and not the hot ones, have a tendency to have that look to the primers although none were actually pierced. You know, that just about pierced look. I haven't seen such primer appearance with any other cartridge regardless of pressure level. Of course all these were fired on the same frame. RELOADS don't exhibit this only FACTORY ammo. Peculiar.

I'm really getting to like the 180s in this cartridge. Guess what, just like the .38 WCF (aka .38-40).

BTW, another interesting observation. At 150 yards, all loads struck to within 3 inches of one another. My 14" with Choate extension, used as a carbine, TC aperture sight. That's with loads of 155 going 1100 fps to 180s going 1450 fps!

I can see why this level of performance had a following. Low recoil usable trajectory to 150 yards (and farther if you are have some experience), sufficient power for close range hunting but not excessive for small game and relatively low report. Would be a great cartridge to teach a youngster and transition to centerfire.

Found a box of PMC 170 gr. factory stuff and shot it up today. 1292/630/17/26 (fps/fpe/ad/sd)

I'm constantly amazed at the velocities I'm not getting. The bore expansion ratio is such with this cartridge that it does just a hair better in the 14" than it would in the 5".
Wanted to let you know the results from my 10mm Auto loads with the 180 gr. XTP and 10.4 gr. Blue Dot. I got 1271/646/23/32 (fps/fpe/ad/sd).

My load with the old BullX 180 gr. TC cast got 1510 fps with 10 gr. of Blue Dot. A little faster I can see but 239 fps! I'd like to know what is up with that. Well that is what makes this interesting. It is accurate.

Of course it is more accurate when the darn sight (TC made aperture) doesn't fall apart while shooting! Apparently the elevation screw unscrewed itself. With my handy magnetic pointer I found it but what a pain. I'll be switching to the Williams WGRS shortly.

I crimp them pretty good and it burns noticeably "cleaner" than new Unique. Of course clean means different things to different people. Also, I can't remember if I said before, but I'm consistently getting complete burn with 10.4 gr. BD and the CCI LP primer (standard NOT magnum). The other day I kept looking down the bore for powder and didn't see any. I was also shooting over my ground sheet to catch whatever blows out of the barrel, but nada.

I am seating those XTPs to make a COL of 1.265" (average). It seems to vary some (I measured 15) and varies between 1.260 and 1.270. I haven't been able to figure out what is causing the variation but suspect that there is a minor variation in the bullet length (guess I'll have to measure the bullets now! ). I does NOT seem to be the result of high primers, headstamp "burrs", or bullet deformation.

I loaded these so that I could use them in a Delta Elite if I wanted (eventually ) without regard to the throat length. I'm off to the range this morning to zero this load and try it for groups out to 150 yards (range use allowing).

Took the new load and loaded it into Pointblank. That program says my PBR (Point Blank Range) should be 107 yards. Range tests prove it out. If you want a 150 yard gun in this caliber you need to go to the .41 Rem Mag or wildcat the 10mm on the .44 Mag. With the 10mm Auto you are down 10-12 inches at 150 yards.

Now when I shoot this out of a Delta Elite, it doesn't seem that bad because I can easily adjust but with peep sights (and probably with a scope) it is very noticeable.

However, it should still do in any farm pest like groundhogs, coyotes and such.

Accuracy? Well, with my sight set up it is no great shakes. On rocks or what have you I will hit them but on a bullseye (50 meter slow fire pistol) at 100 yards, the front post subtends so much that it is difficult to figure out how much side to side you have. Groups ran 5 shots into ½" vertically but 1-2" horizontally. That was the best I could do.


Set up for the PBR, you have to remember that you will be shooting noticeably over at 25-65 yards. This overage is 1-2" and can make the difference if you're attempting squirrel dinner. Again, for those farm pests, just hold center of mass and you'll be fine. This will work on 2 legged pests to 150 yards but much further would be a true desperation/time buying move.

Interestingly, this load of 10.4 gr. BlueDot supposedly runs 35K CUP or around 4400 for breach thrust. That's near the limit for the Contender (isn't it supposed to be about 4500?).

In any case it is a fun cartridge.

I've been reloading the 10mm Auto for my 14" Contender barrel. My preferred bullet is the 180 gr. XTP and I'm currently loading it with Blue Dot (BD).

I've been reading some of the posts on the forum and following links to a certain excellent site and see that I'm not getting the results that I ought to expect.

First, I've tried various bullets. Those I had the best accuracy results with (other than the preferred 180 gr. XTP) were the 155 gr. Hornady XTP and the 180 gr. BullX (sadly departed) TC cast. I also tried various powders including BD, Unique, and 2400. In other words a wide range of powders (although the AA powders are very hard to come by around here). BD seems to be the best powder for accuracy and velocity.

Combining BD and the 180 XTP I worked up to the Hogdon's Annual Manual max of 10.4 gr. of BD. Velocity from my 14" barrel was only 1270 some fps. Factory loads from Remington, PMC, Federal (Hydro Shock), and Hornady did no better. Of course the Hornady factory 155 gr. XTP loading was an exception and produced about 1450 fps. One notably surprising thing is that the BullX 180 gr. cast went 1458 fps (or so, I don't have my records here at work) over 10 gr. of BD. Now, I expect jacketed bullets to be a bit slower, but 200 fps?

Reading posts here and there and some associated files, I see that this performance is generally what can be expected from 5" barrels. That's kinda disappointing but not really.

My goal was to load the XTP to .38-40 rifle velocities, or about 1350 fps and I'm only about 80-100 fps too slow.

Does anyone have any suggestions?

Now, let me share an experience I've had.

Last fall I worked up a load of 2.5 gr. Unique in .38 Special cases under a 205 gr. bullet. This was to be used in a .357 Maximum rifle for small game. It would group into 1-1.5 inches and about 2 inches low of point of aim at 50 yards (sights set for the full-throttle deer load). At 25 yards they were spot on. I could see using these for a wide variety of small game including ground hogs, fox and "others" of that size. I loaded 50 to have to use and tested part of that batch to make certain I had it right. All was well. However, I had never chronographed that load. I did use one round to take one squirrel (on the ground).

Well, today I took it with me when I went shooting the Max (testing Lil'Gun loads). VERY disappointing! What happened! Well today (temp 59 degrees, similar to when I worked up the load) velocities went from 83 fps (yes, not a typo) to 340 fps. Most were striking 2 feet low at 50 yards (but 3 were spot on! ). These loads were useless today.

About midway through the test it occurred to me that they had been stored bullet down in the box and maybe the powder was not next to the primer. All following rounds (18) were given a sharp (but safe) rap on the bench before firing and the rifle barrel was elevated immediately before firing. Little if any improvement. Indeed, I did get a good group, just 2 feet too low! The 3 that were right on were from the first 22 rounds...

I don't know what happened here but I'm going to try a few more and see what happens...

I've recently been working with the .357 Maximum and Lil'Gun. Loads shown at the Dan Wesson page show a max of 23 gr. with 180 gr. bullets and 21.5 gr. with 200 gr. cast bullets. My experimentation took me to these limits with the 180 gr. Hornady SSP and 200 gr. Hornady RN. However, there was a problem with "sticky" cases. IOW, pressures are too high. So I dropped a grain for each and the 200 gr. Hornady still does 1939 fps (excellent) for 1670 fpe, 24 fps AD and a 28 SD. The hotter charge was better in that regard but one does not want to be forced to aid in the extraction of cases. You should just pluck them from the chamber without the use of descriptive phrases!

With the 180 gr. SSP, I only dropped the charge by .5 gr. and in a repeat of the previous experiment, velocities did not change (increased slightly!) but also the AD and SD increased substantially. I'm going to drop this charge the other .5 gr. (as I should have done) and try again. If all goes as before, velocities will average just below 2100 fps and the AD and SD numbers will be similar to the load with the 200 gr. Hornady.

I think it is very interesting that I can beat FACTORY .35 Remington loads with this case. Still, there are limits to what you can do and reloads in the .35 Rem. will only do about 2000-2100 fps with loads safe in both my M8 Remington autoloader and the Contender carbine. However, I have pushed the 200 gr. Hornady RN to 2200+ fps in the Contender.

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I received the first 50 of 100 bullets from Stone Fence today. I think I'll be getting 100 new cases and loading them all with this bullet and 32 gr. of RL-7. That will probably do me with this cartridge for the rest of my days.

I did indeed try the Sam Fadala load of 31 gr. of H4198 as well as another suggested load of 32 gr. of RL-7. BOTH loads gave velocities of about 2000 fps. I don't have the data here at work with me but I think they were within 50 fps of each other with the same bullets. I also tried them with the Barnes Original (you would use the .377" but I used the .375") and got the same performance and case head expansion.

Sam apparently uses both the Barnes and the factory bullets (which he pulls, then dumps the charge and then loads with his own charge). I would prefer the Barnes at this velocity if using this load on bear. The factory bullets are built for the 1300 fps range AND for deer. I don't think I'd be happy with penetration when started at 2000 fps but the Barnes is more heavily constructed and should do fine.

The load I decided to use is the RL-7 load of 32 gr. It apparently produced less pressure and was the faster of the two loads. Might be picking nits, but I liked it better. I used CCI LR primers and was careful to trim my cases and to use a slight roll crimp. This generally works well.

I've been using the Cast Performance 265 gr. GC but only with 28 gr. of IMR 3031 which gives me about 1560 fps (if memory serves). I would think that about 30 gr. of RL-7 or IMR-4198 (up to you to work this up in your gun) would go about 1900 fps. Of course it has to fit or it will lead the bore.

I've gotten Dave Deering (Stone Fence) of FL to make me some of his bullets and they are outstanding!

I like my Contender because I can switch back and forth and only need to buy an additional barrel (without additional firearms purchase, at least in my jurisdiction). The .38-55 is fully the equal of the .375 Win.

One other note. The Hornady 220 gr. .375" bullets will probably NOT work in your .38-55 as their form is incorrect to work with the .38-55 case and throat(s). I don't know about the Sierra.

Pedersoli Brown Bess Trade Gun

I'm an owner of a Brown Bess "Trade Gun" by Pedersoli as sold by Dixie Gun Works. There is nothing "wrong" with the gun. It is fun to shoot but some points...

1. In VA, it was not legal for deer hunting except during the regular gun season. This might not be a problem for you. It was for me. Where you live makes a big difference.

2. The bore is so big that I "feel" that it is too big for some other tasks like groundhog hunting (but not really). It works great on groundhogs with shot at 15 yards (like any other shotgun) and with heavier shot does well on other such quarry.

3. It uses quite a bit of powder although not that much less than say a .69 or .62 (20 ga.) We're talking 115 gr. vs 90 gr. for the smaller 20 ga. smoothbores.

4. It uses a lot more lead for ball.

5. Recommended ball size is .735" and that is incorrect, get the .715" mold. That size ball will work patched and in cartridge and when the gun is fouled. I can see why the military issued the .690" round ball.

6. For only slightly more than half again what this costs I could have had a custom smoothie that would be appropriate for French and Indian or Revolutionary War reenacting. This gun is not strictly accurate for those uses.

7. 12 ga. wads are not recommended 11 ga. is but 12 ga. work best in my gun.

8. I've not been able to get accurate much past 50 yards (with ball) and I don't feel good using it past 40 yards. That is MY level of skill.

9. You can easily make up buck and ball loads. However, they are not really good to use on deer. That warrants a long discussion of its own.

10. You can get all supplies by mail order. There are several suppliers.

11. The full length musket is a LOT of gun.

12. It weighs more than you expect. This might not be a problem but for some people it becomes one.

13. The balance point is right at the lock. Try carrying it one handed for any distance in your right hand and you'll see what I mean.

Links:
- Track of the Wolf
- Dixie Gun Works
- Flintlock FAQs
- Log Cabin Shop
- The Rifle Shoppe, Inc.
- American Longrifles (has a good forum)

You will also need a lot of accouterments. This alone will be an area of study. I'd be happy to answer any questions. If I don't know, I'll say so and point you to somebody who does.

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Use of the smoothbore flintlocks is now legal during the Virginia muzzleloading deer season!