I have to compliment Steve Young of Steve's Gunz who called me last night to discuss my concerns. Now I know that he's in Texas but this was still at the end of a long work day for him. He's a pleasant fellow to talk to and it is clear he enjoys his work. I think it is good customer service and Steve will get my business again.
What we discussed is the mounting of the Williams Foolproof on my carbine. Steve pointed out that the CAS shooters don't use the guns at targets beyond 50 yards and the wide range of adjustment isn't necessary. He also pointed out that these are 100 yard guns. I kinda disagree on that, I think that properly loaded they should be good to 150 yards. After that trajectory DOES get to be too iffy with MY ability to judge distance. He also mounts the sights at that height so that if one wants to switch to a Lyman sight (the model # escapes me) you won't have to drill and tap two more holes, only one.
One can also alter the Williams, install a different front sight (a sourdough might be good) and play with your loads a bit.
I'm hoping to be able to use bullets in the range of 250 to 325 gr. at about 1600-1800 fps. As I told him, we'll see. I haven't had the gun long enough to really wring it out!
Friday, March 25, 2005
Rossi/EMF .45 Colt Carbine Arrives
I've finally (after ONLY 8 weeks) received my EMF Hartford M92 Winchester clone from Steve Young (aka Nate Kiowa Jones) of Steve's Gunz.

My new EMF 92 in .45 Colt
I haven't been able to get to the range, yet, but did get to shoot a few rounds and make a few observations.

The receiver, lever and hammer are all in color case.
Steve has a great program where he will sell you an EMF gun at 10% over wholesale, he does his race ready work and ships it to you for one price. In addition, I had him mount a Williams Foolproof Receiver Sight, replace the plastic follower with one of steel, and install a barrel sight dovetail blank to replace the removed rear sight. My total was $638.90 and I think worth every penny.
When I got to the local FFL to pick up the gun, the folks there commented on how slick this gun was compared to the Legacy, Navy Arms and Rossi guns that they had sold. It is slick! You can operate the lever, under load, with only your little finger. Further, it works at speed or as slowly as you can work the lever. I've yet to see just how long a cartridge it will handle but it did handle all the ammo I had on hand.
Now the ammo is an experience. I suppose that the major markets around here are for CAS shooters and those who wish to spend little money as everyone seems to have only the "cowboy" loads by various makers and CCI Blazers in the aluminum cases. There is one exception, most dealers seem to have large quantities of Winchester Silvertips which use a 200 gr. bullet. It is a good thing that I bought some 250 gr. Hornady XTPs and a couple of hundred new cases. I'm certainly not going to be able to explore the full performance range of this rifle with locally available ammunition.
The gun itself is pretty nice. While the color case is nothing as brilliant and bright as a Doug Turnbull it does have the appearance of well-worn well-cared for color case hardened metal. I don't know if that is the intent but it does give the appearance of a very well cared for rifle with faded colors. I should note that this is on this particular gun. I've seen several of the Navy Arms guns with a more intense color. Those of you who do this know that there can be variations in production guns and I don't know what process is used for the color-case on the Rossi made guns.
The metal finish of the blued steel parts seems pretty even with no dips or waves or color variation. However, even I (I've got color deficient vision) could see that the magazine tube and the barrel have a different finish. I'm not certain if the barrel simply has a higher polish but the colors and appearance is different. I did need a good natural sunlight on it to see it though. It is the magazine tube that is the odd duck as the rest of the blued steel parts seem to match.
The wood to metal fit is generally very good with only 2 exceptions. Both are where the butt meets the receiver and both are on the left side of the gun. One is where the wood stands a bit proud of the receiver boss and the other is where a bit of a chip (possibly) was taken from the wood along the tang. All the rest is very good even the buttplate which seemed to be a bugaboo on other guns I've seen from this maker (Rossi).
The wood itself is some sort of hardwood that mimics walnut but clearly isn't. Fairly unimpressive stuff, only the left side of the butt has any figure at all. I'm sure that many of Winchester's guns with the gumwood stocks looked no better than this.
I had Steve install a Williams Foolproof Receiver Sight as I thought that best for my purpose. I did consider a good fully adjustable tang peep sight but passed on that even though I'm a fan of them and just installed one on my 1906 Winchester (see below). Why? Because I thought it would get in the way and MIGHT be a hazard in high recoil situations with maximum loads. The second reason was unfounded despite the light 5 to 5¼ lb weight of this rifle. However, it would have been in the way.
This rifle is petite, so much so that when you wrap your hand around the wrist of the rifle your hand covers the whole wrist. I think that this would make a tang sight a big problem on what is a hunting rifle. Sometimes I have to control the rifle by holding by the wrist and this would be difficult indeed with the tang sight in the way.
The Williams Foolproof is a great sight and I have one on many of my rifles. It is light, strong, easily & accurately adjusted, without unnecessary protrusions to catch brush. Steve did a great job on the installation but I, in my ignorance, failed to make a specific request. That is, the sight should be mounted so that with the vertical adjustment in the lowest position the horizontal just clears the top of the receiver. It appears that this translates to having the top of the mount even with the bottom of the bevel on the receiver OR 1/8" lower than was done. Now I see why Steve mounted the sight mount even with the top of the receiver, but it doesn't give the full range of adjustment that users might find necessary. For my next rifle (I'm thinking .32-20), this is what I will have done.
For those who may not know, this is how the rifle (carbine) started.

I think that Steve did a wonderful job and I really like the gun. I hope that I'll get to wring it out including running all the ammo over the chronograph before too long.
My new EMF 92 in .45 Colt
I haven't been able to get to the range, yet, but did get to shoot a few rounds and make a few observations.
The receiver, lever and hammer are all in color case.
Steve has a great program where he will sell you an EMF gun at 10% over wholesale, he does his race ready work and ships it to you for one price. In addition, I had him mount a Williams Foolproof Receiver Sight, replace the plastic follower with one of steel, and install a barrel sight dovetail blank to replace the removed rear sight. My total was $638.90 and I think worth every penny.
When I got to the local FFL to pick up the gun, the folks there commented on how slick this gun was compared to the Legacy, Navy Arms and Rossi guns that they had sold. It is slick! You can operate the lever, under load, with only your little finger. Further, it works at speed or as slowly as you can work the lever. I've yet to see just how long a cartridge it will handle but it did handle all the ammo I had on hand.
Now the ammo is an experience. I suppose that the major markets around here are for CAS shooters and those who wish to spend little money as everyone seems to have only the "cowboy" loads by various makers and CCI Blazers in the aluminum cases. There is one exception, most dealers seem to have large quantities of Winchester Silvertips which use a 200 gr. bullet. It is a good thing that I bought some 250 gr. Hornady XTPs and a couple of hundred new cases. I'm certainly not going to be able to explore the full performance range of this rifle with locally available ammunition.
The gun itself is pretty nice. While the color case is nothing as brilliant and bright as a Doug Turnbull it does have the appearance of well-worn well-cared for color case hardened metal. I don't know if that is the intent but it does give the appearance of a very well cared for rifle with faded colors. I should note that this is on this particular gun. I've seen several of the Navy Arms guns with a more intense color. Those of you who do this know that there can be variations in production guns and I don't know what process is used for the color-case on the Rossi made guns.
The metal finish of the blued steel parts seems pretty even with no dips or waves or color variation. However, even I (I've got color deficient vision) could see that the magazine tube and the barrel have a different finish. I'm not certain if the barrel simply has a higher polish but the colors and appearance is different. I did need a good natural sunlight on it to see it though. It is the magazine tube that is the odd duck as the rest of the blued steel parts seem to match.
The wood to metal fit is generally very good with only 2 exceptions. Both are where the butt meets the receiver and both are on the left side of the gun. One is where the wood stands a bit proud of the receiver boss and the other is where a bit of a chip (possibly) was taken from the wood along the tang. All the rest is very good even the buttplate which seemed to be a bugaboo on other guns I've seen from this maker (Rossi).
The wood itself is some sort of hardwood that mimics walnut but clearly isn't. Fairly unimpressive stuff, only the left side of the butt has any figure at all. I'm sure that many of Winchester's guns with the gumwood stocks looked no better than this.
I had Steve install a Williams Foolproof Receiver Sight as I thought that best for my purpose. I did consider a good fully adjustable tang peep sight but passed on that even though I'm a fan of them and just installed one on my 1906 Winchester (see below). Why? Because I thought it would get in the way and MIGHT be a hazard in high recoil situations with maximum loads. The second reason was unfounded despite the light 5 to 5¼ lb weight of this rifle. However, it would have been in the way.
This rifle is petite, so much so that when you wrap your hand around the wrist of the rifle your hand covers the whole wrist. I think that this would make a tang sight a big problem on what is a hunting rifle. Sometimes I have to control the rifle by holding by the wrist and this would be difficult indeed with the tang sight in the way.
The Williams Foolproof is a great sight and I have one on many of my rifles. It is light, strong, easily & accurately adjusted, without unnecessary protrusions to catch brush. Steve did a great job on the installation but I, in my ignorance, failed to make a specific request. That is, the sight should be mounted so that with the vertical adjustment in the lowest position the horizontal just clears the top of the receiver. It appears that this translates to having the top of the mount even with the bottom of the bevel on the receiver OR 1/8" lower than was done. Now I see why Steve mounted the sight mount even with the top of the receiver, but it doesn't give the full range of adjustment that users might find necessary. For my next rifle (I'm thinking .32-20), this is what I will have done.
For those who may not know, this is how the rifle (carbine) started.
I think that Steve did a wonderful job and I really like the gun. I hope that I'll get to wring it out including running all the ammo over the chronograph before too long.
Thursday, March 03, 2005
Well, the grinding of the new tang screw went off without a hitch. I really like these little guns. Lots of fun. Helps excite you when you had great times with grandpa and one of these fine rifles.
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| Winchester M62A (top) and Winchester 06 |
The photo makes clear the differences in size between the 06 and 62A. The 06 is very petite compared to the 62A which feels pretty solid even for a grown man. The shorter length of pull is clear. The shorter barrel makes a noticeable difference in weight. My kids used to think it was heavy and preferred the 06. Right now the 06 is zeroed for the Aguila Colibri .22 ammo. No, it doesn't stick in the barrel.
Wednesday, March 02, 2005
Winchester M1906 Marbles Sight Installation
As I noted last time I'm searching for projects, mostly catch-up jobs, to do while awaiting my EMF M92 from Steve Young (aka Nate Kiowa Jones) of Steve's Gunz. The first of those projects is the Winchester M06 (aka 1906) that was my maternal grandfather's. When I got it it had just come out of 20-30 years of storage in my grandparents' attic and had a coat of fine rust over most of the exterior. However, the internals and wood were in pretty good condition and it WAS my grandfather's gun so...
Well I had it bead blasted and reblued. I messed with some modern open sights for a while and then a few days ago I re-installed the #21 front sight and ordered a Marble's tang peep from MidwayUSA. AT $125 (less a nickel) it isn't inexpensive but not all that bad either. I received it today and quicker than Teddy Kennedy after bourbon and ice I had the sight on the gun.
Although I wrote the people at Marble's prior to ordering the sight so that I could be sure it would fit AND that the screws would be properly threaded I wasn't all that certain. Their response to my inquiry Will this tang sight for the Winchester 1906 work with the factory drilled and tapped mounting hole? Is a new tang screw included properly threaded for the Winchester? was Q1 - Yes Q2 - Yes, you may have to change threads. Not at all reassuring. However, all threads and hole spacing matched perfectly. The only problem was that the replacement tang screw was a bit long. No problem that, a few minutes with a grinder and it will be just fine.
This is a wonderful sight in another way. It is easy to adjust (I hope not TOO easy!). Looking through the aperture, I was quickly able to roughly zero the new sight by aligning it with the sight picture of the old open sight. The adjustments were easy to make and there was no roughness in the threads. I then removed the new/old rear sight. I hadn't done that before I took this photo (too excited).
Well, I'm bound for the basement to do some grinding on a tang screw!
| Sight Installation Closeup |
Well I had it bead blasted and reblued. I messed with some modern open sights for a while and then a few days ago I re-installed the #21 front sight and ordered a Marble's tang peep from MidwayUSA. AT $125 (less a nickel) it isn't inexpensive but not all that bad either. I received it today and quicker than Teddy Kennedy after bourbon and ice I had the sight on the gun.
This is a wonderful sight in another way. It is easy to adjust (I hope not TOO easy!). Looking through the aperture, I was quickly able to roughly zero the new sight by aligning it with the sight picture of the old open sight. The adjustments were easy to make and there was no roughness in the threads. I then removed the new/old rear sight. I hadn't done that before I took this photo (too excited).
Well, I'm bound for the basement to do some grinding on a tang screw!
Friday, February 25, 2005
New Rifle Coming
I'm going to write a bit about my .45 Colt, EMF/Rossi M92 carbine finished in blue and color-casehardened receiver. I ordered this gun from Steve Young of Steve's Gunz. Steve is going to do his "race ready" work, install a Williams Foolproof, steel follower, and barrel sight slot blank. I considered having this made into a 16" trapper or trapper with button mag but decided that it would be infinitely wiser to shoot it as manufacturered (with Steve's refinements) and then decide if I wanted to shorten the barrel, magazine or both.
I've already purchased the RCBS carbide die set for this cartridge. I also bought 100 cases and 1 box of 100 Hornady 250 gr. XTP HP bullets. I plan on loading this particular lot over a hefty charge of H110 but will also do some round ball loads over Bullseye and some cast GCs over Unique and Lil'Gun.
The thing that is getting to me is the wait. It has only been about 30 days now but I feel as if it has been a year! Pretty lame for an old, well, older man! In any case it is a bear to be waiting so I've tried to distract myself.
My first thought was to find a good single-action revolver in .45 Colt that could become my big bore revolver (so that I could rid myself of the 629). That search was a bust. I'm wanting a Bisley grip on the Vaquero and would have accepted the standard grip on a New Vaquero (aka Vaquerito). I then broadened my search to include the USFA or Colt revolvers. No joy. Now, after much searching and looking at the various revolvers I've come to the conclusion that I "need" a Freedom Arms M97 and am leaning towards the fixed sight version. Still, at $1694, this is no spur of the moment purchase. I'd want the .45 Colt. Anyway, at $1694, I'd better think about this some more so I need to find some other diversion!
I have this old Winchester 06, a pump-action rifle for the .22 Short, Long and Long Rifle, made in 1924 that belonged to my maternal grandfather. Many years ago my grandmother, a virulent anti-gun person as are her 3 sisters, made Grandfather put all his guns in the attic. Well, as will happen, the roof leaked and moisture got on and near the guns and there was some rust. When I got this one, it was in bad shape and I had it bead blasted (which removed the worst of it) and re-blued. I had replaced the sights. This included the front sight (which I thought was too short for the replacement rear sight) but I discovered that it was the same height as the replacement and switched back to the original No. 21 front sight. Now, something had to be done about the rear sight.
Well, I like aperture sights (you might have noticed) and so I checked with Marble's as to the fit and threading of the mounting screws and decided to order one of their windage adjustable tang sights for the 06. Not cheap but cheaper in real dollars than they would have been when the rifle was made. Now I'm waiting for delivery of the sight but when I get it this gun will be set up just like my other grandfather's Winchester M62A (made in 1947 IIRC).
I think I might have as much as 4 more weeks to wait so... I guess I need to find another project to keep me occupied.
| The EMF rifle as shown on their website. |
I've already purchased the RCBS carbide die set for this cartridge. I also bought 100 cases and 1 box of 100 Hornady 250 gr. XTP HP bullets. I plan on loading this particular lot over a hefty charge of H110 but will also do some round ball loads over Bullseye and some cast GCs over Unique and Lil'Gun.
The thing that is getting to me is the wait. It has only been about 30 days now but I feel as if it has been a year! Pretty lame for an old, well, older man! In any case it is a bear to be waiting so I've tried to distract myself.
My first thought was to find a good single-action revolver in .45 Colt that could become my big bore revolver (so that I could rid myself of the 629). That search was a bust. I'm wanting a Bisley grip on the Vaquero and would have accepted the standard grip on a New Vaquero (aka Vaquerito). I then broadened my search to include the USFA or Colt revolvers. No joy. Now, after much searching and looking at the various revolvers I've come to the conclusion that I "need" a Freedom Arms M97 and am leaning towards the fixed sight version. Still, at $1694, this is no spur of the moment purchase. I'd want the .45 Colt. Anyway, at $1694, I'd better think about this some more so I need to find some other diversion!
I have this old Winchester 06, a pump-action rifle for the .22 Short, Long and Long Rifle, made in 1924 that belonged to my maternal grandfather. Many years ago my grandmother, a virulent anti-gun person as are her 3 sisters, made Grandfather put all his guns in the attic. Well, as will happen, the roof leaked and moisture got on and near the guns and there was some rust. When I got this one, it was in bad shape and I had it bead blasted (which removed the worst of it) and re-blued. I had replaced the sights. This included the front sight (which I thought was too short for the replacement rear sight) but I discovered that it was the same height as the replacement and switched back to the original No. 21 front sight. Now, something had to be done about the rear sight.
Well, I like aperture sights (you might have noticed) and so I checked with Marble's as to the fit and threading of the mounting screws and decided to order one of their windage adjustable tang sights for the 06. Not cheap but cheaper in real dollars than they would have been when the rifle was made. Now I'm waiting for delivery of the sight but when I get it this gun will be set up just like my other grandfather's Winchester M62A (made in 1947 IIRC).
I think I might have as much as 4 more weeks to wait so... I guess I need to find another project to keep me occupied.
Friday, February 04, 2005
I was recently was asked about mounting telescopic sights, aka scopes or scope sights. I read a lot of different articles, some more than once, and some maybe 2 or 3 years after first reading them. See a lot of posts on the internet.
I have always been a cheap so-and-so and would not even buy a scope for many years. Didn't like them, didn't need them, and didn't want to spend the money. Then my attitude began to undergo a change as I got older (who's sight doesn't get worse as they get older?) and when I began to feel a need for more precision. I had a couple of .22 rifles on which I mounted a scope sight for the purpose of squirrel hunting and made some really good shots. Then I go into Contenders and they are a natural for mounting scopes easily and maintaining their easy-to-carry characteristics. While I would never want to mount a scope sight on a levergun, most of my contender barrels have one.
Because I'm a cheap so-and-so, it seemed natural that I would mount the scopes myself. Of course, I'm too cheap to get a bore collimator or bore sighter (such as this Leupold Boresighter or this Simmons Boresighter. So, I've had to use a multitude of field expedients.
It is necessary and sometimes difficult is to ensure that the reticule is not canted in relation to the gun bore. I've used levels, plumb lines, the Reticule Leveler and all sorts of other devices and field expedients to correct problems. Sometimes you have to get really creative. However, you must start with the mount which must be of the correct relationship to the bore. Sometimes even the factory will get the D&T wrong (but not that often in my experience). When that happens, some people will quickly resort to shims.
I never use shims if I can help it. Mechanically, they are another very weak link in the physical chain connecting the scope to the mount and mount to rifle. IOW, the shim can actually render the scope to rifle relationship more tenuous than is necessary. MOST (not always) of the time shims are not needed to zero the firearm. MOST scopes have the range of adjustment needed, much more than needed IN MOST CASES. There are cases where the BASE or MOUNT must be shimmed to ensure it is square to the rifle but because of the way bases attach, there isn't nearly the chance for slipping that shimming in the rings might present. If gross off-sets are needed there are rings made with inserts such as the Burris Posi-lin that obviate even a perceived need to shim and also those that provide lateral (windage) adjustment such as the Millet Angle-Locs.
For shim material I particularly don't like the use of cartridge brass because it is tapered. You can't ensure that it isn't tapered because from the head of the case to the case mouth the brass will taper in thickness. Tapered shim material does 2 bad things. One, it makes it extremely difficult to judge the degree of change you'll get when you tighten the work down onto the shim. Two, not all of the shim material will be in contact with both work surfaces which reduces the friction which holds everything in place against recoil.One shim material that is usually consistent in thickness across the shim AND cheap is the side of a soda or beer can (I'm afraid to admit how many BEER can shims I've made! ).
For my scoped guns (which are now all Contenders) I use Weaver mounts and low Weaver rings. I square the reticule using the Reticule Leveler. Weaver rings can easily torque a scope out of square and so I tighten every other ring screw ¼ turn at a time until they are all fully tightened. I might bore sight but often find it a waste of time. I go to the range. I fire one shot on the target. I secure the gun with the crosshair directly on the one bullet hole. I then adjust the sights so that the crosshair is directly over the desired POI. I then fire a single confirmation shot. I've already tested the ammo used and have the supposed ballistic performance to hand. I then shoot to confirm at 25, 50, 100 and 150 yards. I then zero for maximum point blank range. I'm not one to be changing sights of any kind and for the light loads I make up for some rifles, I adjust the load to shoot to the sights albeit at shorter ranges, say 25 yards. This system works for me. If I pay attention to detail, the "chore" goes off without a hitch.
This is not to say that other methods don't result in zeroed guns but this seems so much easier to me. I know because I've tried the method of locking the gun into a vise making sure all is square and level and then using a plumb line on which one lines up the vertical crosshair of the reticule. Too, many steps many interconnecting parts. At each connection a bit more slop or error creeps in. It can be enough to drive anyone crazy.
I have always been a cheap so-and-so and would not even buy a scope for many years. Didn't like them, didn't need them, and didn't want to spend the money. Then my attitude began to undergo a change as I got older (who's sight doesn't get worse as they get older?) and when I began to feel a need for more precision. I had a couple of .22 rifles on which I mounted a scope sight for the purpose of squirrel hunting and made some really good shots. Then I go into Contenders and they are a natural for mounting scopes easily and maintaining their easy-to-carry characteristics. While I would never want to mount a scope sight on a levergun, most of my contender barrels have one.
Because I'm a cheap so-and-so, it seemed natural that I would mount the scopes myself. Of course, I'm too cheap to get a bore collimator or bore sighter (such as this Leupold Boresighter or this Simmons Boresighter. So, I've had to use a multitude of field expedients.
It is necessary and sometimes difficult is to ensure that the reticule is not canted in relation to the gun bore. I've used levels, plumb lines, the Reticule Leveler and all sorts of other devices and field expedients to correct problems. Sometimes you have to get really creative. However, you must start with the mount which must be of the correct relationship to the bore. Sometimes even the factory will get the D&T wrong (but not that often in my experience). When that happens, some people will quickly resort to shims.
I never use shims if I can help it. Mechanically, they are another very weak link in the physical chain connecting the scope to the mount and mount to rifle. IOW, the shim can actually render the scope to rifle relationship more tenuous than is necessary. MOST (not always) of the time shims are not needed to zero the firearm. MOST scopes have the range of adjustment needed, much more than needed IN MOST CASES. There are cases where the BASE or MOUNT must be shimmed to ensure it is square to the rifle but because of the way bases attach, there isn't nearly the chance for slipping that shimming in the rings might present. If gross off-sets are needed there are rings made with inserts such as the Burris Posi-lin that obviate even a perceived need to shim and also those that provide lateral (windage) adjustment such as the Millet Angle-Locs.
For shim material I particularly don't like the use of cartridge brass because it is tapered. You can't ensure that it isn't tapered because from the head of the case to the case mouth the brass will taper in thickness. Tapered shim material does 2 bad things. One, it makes it extremely difficult to judge the degree of change you'll get when you tighten the work down onto the shim. Two, not all of the shim material will be in contact with both work surfaces which reduces the friction which holds everything in place against recoil.One shim material that is usually consistent in thickness across the shim AND cheap is the side of a soda or beer can (I'm afraid to admit how many BEER can shims I've made! ).
For my scoped guns (which are now all Contenders) I use Weaver mounts and low Weaver rings. I square the reticule using the Reticule Leveler. Weaver rings can easily torque a scope out of square and so I tighten every other ring screw ¼ turn at a time until they are all fully tightened. I might bore sight but often find it a waste of time. I go to the range. I fire one shot on the target. I secure the gun with the crosshair directly on the one bullet hole. I then adjust the sights so that the crosshair is directly over the desired POI. I then fire a single confirmation shot. I've already tested the ammo used and have the supposed ballistic performance to hand. I then shoot to confirm at 25, 50, 100 and 150 yards. I then zero for maximum point blank range. I'm not one to be changing sights of any kind and for the light loads I make up for some rifles, I adjust the load to shoot to the sights albeit at shorter ranges, say 25 yards. This system works for me. If I pay attention to detail, the "chore" goes off without a hitch.
This is not to say that other methods don't result in zeroed guns but this seems so much easier to me. I know because I've tried the method of locking the gun into a vise making sure all is square and level and then using a plumb line on which one lines up the vertical crosshair of the reticule. Too, many steps many interconnecting parts. At each connection a bit more slop or error creeps in. It can be enough to drive anyone crazy.
Wednesday, January 12, 2005
629 at the Range
The weather was beautiful today, 63F at 1 PM, and I took the opportunity to go to the range. Took my M629-1 and 100 rounds of the 8 gr. Unique under the Hornady 240 gr. swaged SWCHP. It was immediately apparent that the gun had been zeroed with the heavier loads (I hardly ever take this one out). Also apparent (after ONLY 3 cylinders full) was another reason I did not like these grips. I got a very healthy blister! I guess these grips just rub me the wrong way. So I got a piece of slick paper and electricians tape from my shooting box and taped over the blister and kept shooting.
Shown below is the 12" target I used. The range was 25 yards. I shot from standing one-handed (strong hand) about 60-70% of the shots fired and the rest are fired with my arms supported by the bench. Please remember that I switched from fun off-hand to supported zero and back to off-hand.

Shown is today's target and the revolver responsible. Please note that the gun is capable of good accuracy.
There are about 15 shots off the bull, almost all to the upper left of the target (which managed to be hung upside down). I "drooped" a bit and that is what causes the low hits on target. Note the several tight clusters particularly the one on the right (I'd over corrected the rear sight). I believe the gun is capable of some decent accuracy, even if I'm no longer up to the task.
I have been using 8 gr. of Unique with the Hornady bullet (HP or FP) and 9 gr. with the BullX 240 gr. SWC (of which I still have some few, the company is out of business). I don't know but that I will load all at 9 gr. of Unique. I will no longer use the heavier loads in this gun. I never need them and they are never comfortable to shoot with any of the grips I've used.
Not to dwell on that subject again, but I think that my average size hands must be a bit "un-average" in proportions as none of these grips has ever felt comfortable. In any case, I will stick to the aforementioned 9 gr. Unique under a 240 gr. lead bullet OR 22.5 gr. of H110 under the Hornady 300 gr. XTP which I use in my rifle. This later load is safe in the Ruger Super Redhawk (a friend's gun) but is too long to be usable in my revolver. Fine by me. I have a quantity of loads using 2400 but I'm going to shoot those as position practice with my carbine (a Contender).
I think you can see as well as I that I am still capable but need practice. I can tell you right now that I'm nowhere near as good as I once was because I've let my physical conditioning slide. Even though I CAN run 3 miles, I'm sucking wind at the end and my speed isn't exactly on the fast side. My weight has gone up 10 lbs and I haven't been doing any weight training. My eyesight gets a bit iffy some days, too!
Shown below is the 12" target I used. The range was 25 yards. I shot from standing one-handed (strong hand) about 60-70% of the shots fired and the rest are fired with my arms supported by the bench. Please remember that I switched from fun off-hand to supported zero and back to off-hand.
Shown is today's target and the revolver responsible. Please note that the gun is capable of good accuracy.
There are about 15 shots off the bull, almost all to the upper left of the target (which managed to be hung upside down). I "drooped" a bit and that is what causes the low hits on target. Note the several tight clusters particularly the one on the right (I'd over corrected the rear sight). I believe the gun is capable of some decent accuracy, even if I'm no longer up to the task.
I have been using 8 gr. of Unique with the Hornady bullet (HP or FP) and 9 gr. with the BullX 240 gr. SWC (of which I still have some few, the company is out of business). I don't know but that I will load all at 9 gr. of Unique. I will no longer use the heavier loads in this gun. I never need them and they are never comfortable to shoot with any of the grips I've used.
Not to dwell on that subject again, but I think that my average size hands must be a bit "un-average" in proportions as none of these grips has ever felt comfortable. In any case, I will stick to the aforementioned 9 gr. Unique under a 240 gr. lead bullet OR 22.5 gr. of H110 under the Hornady 300 gr. XTP which I use in my rifle. This later load is safe in the Ruger Super Redhawk (a friend's gun) but is too long to be usable in my revolver. Fine by me. I have a quantity of loads using 2400 but I'm going to shoot those as position practice with my carbine (a Contender).
I think you can see as well as I that I am still capable but need practice. I can tell you right now that I'm nowhere near as good as I once was because I've let my physical conditioning slide. Even though I CAN run 3 miles, I'm sucking wind at the end and my speed isn't exactly on the fast side. My weight has gone up 10 lbs and I haven't been doing any weight training. My eyesight gets a bit iffy some days, too!
Saturday, January 08, 2005
Reloading Area
Sometime back, I started to write about my loading set-up and some of the circumstances with which I've had to deal and my solutions to certain problems. I also had a couple of photos of my layout. However, I was distracted by something else and didn't capture all the data. I hope to do that here, now.
I've been through a lot of different set-ups as I moved around and gone from a Lee Loader to RCBS Rockchucker. I've accumulated die sets for 26 cartridges and a lot of brass, bullets and primers (when in doubt of what to get at a gunshop and feel a need to buy something, I get primers). I've also loaded a pile of ammo, more than I expected to do, for every firearm I shoot. Well, I think it is a pile, usually about 500 rounds per and there are few duplicates indeed. This requires a storage facility and system that must also resist moisture as it is in my basement (despite the constant use of 1-2 dehumidifiers). Systematic storage also makes for a safer environment and the ability to lay your hands on what you need when you need it.
The equipment my bench must house or must be used on its surface include my tool box, 2 MEC 600 Jr presses, 1 SAECO lubricator-sizer, an RCBS Rockchucker, scale, trickler, 26 sets of loading dies, and a Lyman trimmer. I also have a supply of primers, bullets, and powder. I also have molds and casting equipment and a number of miscellaneous tools. For me, the bench has always been a cobbled together assortment of hand-me-down furniture and lumber. Seems that things still have not changed that much.
As you look at the photos you can see that I have shelves on the left of the "bench" (really a low desk type "construction") and an old child's desk (mine from 1963 or 1964!). From left to right I have component and die storage, tool box and working bench and shotshell loading setup. In the second photo you can see how I store my ammo in GI 5.56mm or .50 Cal ammo cans on a shelf designed to take either 7 of the aforementioned cans or twice that number of the .30 Cal (7.62mm) MG ammo cans. Those shelves hold much but not all of my ammunition.

My Ammo Storage Shelves

My "Bench"

My Component Storage Shelves
I think that anyone can see from the photos that I'm not bragging. It more closely approximates a rat hole and isn't in any way luxurious, but my reloading set up works and produces good ammo.
I've been through a lot of different set-ups as I moved around and gone from a Lee Loader to RCBS Rockchucker. I've accumulated die sets for 26 cartridges and a lot of brass, bullets and primers (when in doubt of what to get at a gunshop and feel a need to buy something, I get primers). I've also loaded a pile of ammo, more than I expected to do, for every firearm I shoot. Well, I think it is a pile, usually about 500 rounds per and there are few duplicates indeed. This requires a storage facility and system that must also resist moisture as it is in my basement (despite the constant use of 1-2 dehumidifiers). Systematic storage also makes for a safer environment and the ability to lay your hands on what you need when you need it.
The equipment my bench must house or must be used on its surface include my tool box, 2 MEC 600 Jr presses, 1 SAECO lubricator-sizer, an RCBS Rockchucker, scale, trickler, 26 sets of loading dies, and a Lyman trimmer. I also have a supply of primers, bullets, and powder. I also have molds and casting equipment and a number of miscellaneous tools. For me, the bench has always been a cobbled together assortment of hand-me-down furniture and lumber. Seems that things still have not changed that much.
As you look at the photos you can see that I have shelves on the left of the "bench" (really a low desk type "construction") and an old child's desk (mine from 1963 or 1964!). From left to right I have component and die storage, tool box and working bench and shotshell loading setup. In the second photo you can see how I store my ammo in GI 5.56mm or .50 Cal ammo cans on a shelf designed to take either 7 of the aforementioned cans or twice that number of the .30 Cal (7.62mm) MG ammo cans. Those shelves hold much but not all of my ammunition.
My Ammo Storage Shelves
My "Bench"
My Component Storage Shelves
I think that anyone can see from the photos that I'm not bragging. It more closely approximates a rat hole and isn't in any way luxurious, but my reloading set up works and produces good ammo.
Friday, January 07, 2005
Do I NEED a New Revolver?
The recent release of the Ruger New Vaquero initiated several topics on many forums. The gun personally interests me because it is usable by my, I feel, small hands. The release of this new gun thus instigated a new round of introspective analysis concerning the use of a large bore revolver.
Currently I own a Smith & Wesson M629 4" as my large bore revolver. Chambered for the .44 Magnum, I have to admit that I've only fired some 500 full .44 Magnum loads through it most of the rest of some 2000 rounds being a load of 8 gr. Unique under the Hornady .429" swaged 240 gr. SWCHP. This load produces about 8-900 fps from my revolver and works ok. I also load 9 gr. of Unique under the BullX (now defunct) 240 gr. SWC. For some reason, these two loads produce almost identical ballistics despite the difference of 1 gr. in the powder charge.
I bought the revolver in 1985 from an officer serving in my Brigade. He needed the money and I "needed" the revolver. It came with the Pachmayr Presentation grips and there were no factory grips, box or papers. It is a 629-1 and so I think it was produced before S&W released the computer engineered guns that were supposed to have increased durability under the strain of the .44 Magnum. That's one reason that I've not used .44 Magnum loads exclusively.
The other reason is that it hasn't been that comfortable a gun to shoot, at least double action. I've used it mostly by cocking for each shot. I've never felt that my trigger finger could reach the trigger. I tried different grips. I tried different grip styles. I just never felt comfortable. Even my scoped .44 Mag Contender 10" felt more comfortable than the 629! This kept me looking for a replacement, constantly looking.
Among the guns considered were the Ruger Redhawk, Super Redhawk, Blackhawk, Bisley, Vaquero and Bisley-Vaquero. I wasn't limiting myself to the .44 Magnum cartridge either. The .45 Colt is fully as capable and just as exciting. Even the .41 Magnum was in the running. However, each had their shortcomings. Barrels too long, gun too heavy, grip uncomfortable, etc. Even the Colt Anaconda was considered but dismissed as being unnecessarily expensive. Every time I walked into a gun shop I would peruse the pistol case. The worst part (perhaps the most telling thing) is that this has gone on for nearly 20 years!
Now that's pitiful. I can't make up my mind after 20 years! Well, then here comes the New Vaquero, whoo-hoooo and boy am I excited. BUT, it will require that I sell the 629... uh, oh... can't bring myself to do that! So, last night, I get the 629 out again, pull the Pachmayr Presentation grips and install Pachmayr's open back version of the Gripper. I figured this would get my trigger finger as close as possible to the trigger. Of course I had to dry fire with the Presentation grips installed. Guess what...
Come on, guess what happened next...
Yeah, that's right, I've got plenty of reach to the trigger. So, why does this moron now find that he can shoot the gun double action? Well, I think that I rejected these grips because they expose the backstrap and are very narrow. Thus, they are punishing to shoot with full power loads. I like shooting but I'm not particularly into pain.
Now, I think this will be my large bore revolver for the forseeable future and I'll just stick with the load of 8 or 9 gr. of unique under a 240-250 gr. SWC. I have a feeling this will do me just fine, for at least the next month or so...

My S&W M629 4" .44 Remington Magnum
Currently I own a Smith & Wesson M629 4" as my large bore revolver. Chambered for the .44 Magnum, I have to admit that I've only fired some 500 full .44 Magnum loads through it most of the rest of some 2000 rounds being a load of 8 gr. Unique under the Hornady .429" swaged 240 gr. SWCHP. This load produces about 8-900 fps from my revolver and works ok. I also load 9 gr. of Unique under the BullX (now defunct) 240 gr. SWC. For some reason, these two loads produce almost identical ballistics despite the difference of 1 gr. in the powder charge.
I bought the revolver in 1985 from an officer serving in my Brigade. He needed the money and I "needed" the revolver. It came with the Pachmayr Presentation grips and there were no factory grips, box or papers. It is a 629-1 and so I think it was produced before S&W released the computer engineered guns that were supposed to have increased durability under the strain of the .44 Magnum. That's one reason that I've not used .44 Magnum loads exclusively.
The other reason is that it hasn't been that comfortable a gun to shoot, at least double action. I've used it mostly by cocking for each shot. I've never felt that my trigger finger could reach the trigger. I tried different grips. I tried different grip styles. I just never felt comfortable. Even my scoped .44 Mag Contender 10" felt more comfortable than the 629! This kept me looking for a replacement, constantly looking.
Among the guns considered were the Ruger Redhawk, Super Redhawk, Blackhawk, Bisley, Vaquero and Bisley-Vaquero. I wasn't limiting myself to the .44 Magnum cartridge either. The .45 Colt is fully as capable and just as exciting. Even the .41 Magnum was in the running. However, each had their shortcomings. Barrels too long, gun too heavy, grip uncomfortable, etc. Even the Colt Anaconda was considered but dismissed as being unnecessarily expensive. Every time I walked into a gun shop I would peruse the pistol case. The worst part (perhaps the most telling thing) is that this has gone on for nearly 20 years!
Now that's pitiful. I can't make up my mind after 20 years! Well, then here comes the New Vaquero, whoo-hoooo and boy am I excited. BUT, it will require that I sell the 629... uh, oh... can't bring myself to do that! So, last night, I get the 629 out again, pull the Pachmayr Presentation grips and install Pachmayr's open back version of the Gripper. I figured this would get my trigger finger as close as possible to the trigger. Of course I had to dry fire with the Presentation grips installed. Guess what...
Come on, guess what happened next...
Yeah, that's right, I've got plenty of reach to the trigger. So, why does this moron now find that he can shoot the gun double action? Well, I think that I rejected these grips because they expose the backstrap and are very narrow. Thus, they are punishing to shoot with full power loads. I like shooting but I'm not particularly into pain.
Now, I think this will be my large bore revolver for the forseeable future and I'll just stick with the load of 8 or 9 gr. of unique under a 240-250 gr. SWC. I have a feeling this will do me just fine, for at least the next month or so...
My S&W M629 4" .44 Remington Magnum
Saturday, January 01, 2005
I've hunted out the rest of the year with no luck. First it was so cold that I was crunching my way into a stand or unable to find a good location for the deer. Today, it was so warm I imagine the deer thought they had gone to Cabo San Lucas on vacation and were headed to the shade. Skunked this year.
I think that a full year of scouting (beginning with the good old shed search in February) will not only help work off some of this years holiday joy but also be a big help for next year! Meanwhile I'll get out and shoot the muzzleloaders (especially Bess now that she can go too!) and set up for bow practice. I should not have to do all the up and down the road during hunting seasons that I had to do this year. Sadly, my father-in-law has passed now.
I also need to see if I can find a good hunting partner. Getting a little old hunting alone.
I think that a full year of scouting (beginning with the good old shed search in February) will not only help work off some of this years holiday joy but also be a big help for next year! Meanwhile I'll get out and shoot the muzzleloaders (especially Bess now that she can go too!) and set up for bow practice. I should not have to do all the up and down the road during hunting seasons that I had to do this year. Sadly, my father-in-law has passed now.
I also need to see if I can find a good hunting partner. Getting a little old hunting alone.
Sunday, December 26, 2004
I've not been able to hunt the last 2 days because, well, yesterday was Christmas (and I've got family after all) and today is Sunday. Sunday hunting is still illegal here in VA.
Friday, I went out and the temps were down about 16-20 degrees. It had been 56 the day before and rained so there were puddles and a good amount of standing water and the ground was soaked just before it started to freeze. This created ice crystals that jutted from the ground and crunched underfoot (if you weren't careful). I carefully moved through about 3½ to 3 miles of deer trails and saw only a couple of old rubs, no scrapes (the last time I was here there was a scrape that was now clearly long abandoned) and crossed one, small, fresh track. Pretty disappointing.
This week will be a full 6 days of either sex but I have competition for my time. Tuesday I will be visiting with friends and discussing model trains (the wife's new hobby), Wednesday I will be visiting with my God-son and Friday & Saturday (maybe) will be spent at work.
Friday, I went out and the temps were down about 16-20 degrees. It had been 56 the day before and rained so there were puddles and a good amount of standing water and the ground was soaked just before it started to freeze. This created ice crystals that jutted from the ground and crunched underfoot (if you weren't careful). I carefully moved through about 3½ to 3 miles of deer trails and saw only a couple of old rubs, no scrapes (the last time I was here there was a scrape that was now clearly long abandoned) and crossed one, small, fresh track. Pretty disappointing.
This week will be a full 6 days of either sex but I have competition for my time. Tuesday I will be visiting with friends and discussing model trains (the wife's new hobby), Wednesday I will be visiting with my God-son and Friday & Saturday (maybe) will be spent at work.
Thursday, December 23, 2004
The last 2 days of hunting (well partial days) have provided none of the traditional measures of success, like a buck on the ground! However, they've been informative and interesting and, above all, calming.
Yesterday, I didn't get out until late but had plenty of time and pretty good conditions to check a number of trails on an often hunted piece of farmland. It was informative because it was clear that there had been only those 2 doe had seen the other day in the weeks since "regular" gun season. NO new scrapes, NO new rubs, nothing to indicate that there was a buck in the vicinity. I hope he got some before they shot him in the regular season.
Today, was a bit rainy. Didn't look too bad at the house but the rain was really coming down on "the mountain". Still, I had taken the necessary precautions and tried to hunt. Other than getting wet, I did myself no good in the bring a buck to bag category. I did decide to see if my charge had been as well protected as I thought and proceeded to light one off at some very soft ground. She smacked the ground hard, at the mark, at 50 yards and went right off. Quite pleased at that, I didn't so much mind the early ride home.
Yesterday, I didn't get out until late but had plenty of time and pretty good conditions to check a number of trails on an often hunted piece of farmland. It was informative because it was clear that there had been only those 2 doe had seen the other day in the weeks since "regular" gun season. NO new scrapes, NO new rubs, nothing to indicate that there was a buck in the vicinity. I hope he got some before they shot him in the regular season.
Today, was a bit rainy. Didn't look too bad at the house but the rain was really coming down on "the mountain". Still, I had taken the necessary precautions and tried to hunt. Other than getting wet, I did myself no good in the bring a buck to bag category. I did decide to see if my charge had been as well protected as I thought and proceeded to light one off at some very soft ground. She smacked the ground hard, at the mark, at 50 yards and went right off. Quite pleased at that, I didn't so much mind the early ride home.
Tuesday, December 21, 2004
Well, quite a bit of today was spent on awaiting delivery of a Christmas gift. All was not lost. Although it was very windy, I did get up to my mom's, do a bit of a chore for her and get out and see two doe. Unfortunately, doe aren't legal today but where the comely female of the species feeds, the male is not far behind. Tomorrow may be a better deer getting day than today.
Thursday, December 16, 2004
Muzzleloading Hunting, My Gear
The next big thing on the calendar (actually it started December 18!) for those of us in western Virginia, aside from Christmas and New Years Day, is the late muzzleloading season. For those of you not from Virginia, we're limited to single barrel muzzleloaders with a .45 or larger bore. In-lines, telescopic sights, aperture sights and sabots (projectile .38 cal or larger) are all allowed. See the Virginia Department of Game and Inland Fisheries for more information. As late as last year my Brown Bess Carbine wasn't legal (a smoothbore flintlock) but an all up scoped, Knight .52 in-line (reportedly accurate to 200 yards, see the data at the link) was legal. Any wonder that more hunters hunt our two muzzleloading seasons with their liberal "doe days"?
My choice is a combination of the modern and "period" hunting rifles. About 17 years ago, I bought (from MidSouth Shooting Supply) a Thompson Center Arms New Englander (now discontinued). Mine is a .54 caliber gun with a 1-48" twist rifling and a TC hunting tang sight. Yes, another aperture sight. I do like them! It has slim lines so that it carries well and the recoil isn't at all bad due to the design of the stock and the broad buttplate. Apparently, I like the rifle too as I've never been moved to get another, newer, different rifle.
For me, such hunting is about the challenge and so, while the rifle groups well at 100 yards, I tend to think in terms of 75 yards as my working maximum. The gun is accurate. When loaded with patched round ball and 60 gr. of Pyrodex RS it is accurate enough to take squirrels with headshots at up to 40 yards. The rifle "hangs" well for such shots, too. However, my hunting load is 90 gr. of Pyrodex RS or GOEX FFg with the same patched round ball OR 100 gr. of either propellent with a Buffalo Bore 325 gr. or Hornady Great Plains conical. So, this rifle is roughly the equivalent of the .45-70 black powder express load of the 1890s. Not bad that!
As you can see, I do use some modern conveniences such as the TC Quick Shot for the conical bullet loads. I use the Blue and Gray Quickloads for the roundball loads. The little belt bag is sufficiently large to carry about 10 loads which is more than enough for a days deer hunting (I've never fired more than 2 shots). the knife is a Russell Canadian Belt Knife made by Grohmann in Pictou, Nova Scotia, Canada. I really like my knife and bought it from a sporting good store in downtown Monterey, CA in 1974. I've carried that knife around the world but it is still in excellent condition.
Can't hunt today but for the rest of the week and NEXT week! Whoo hooo!
This year, the law has changed to allow smoothbore guns that otherwise meet the criteria of single barrel, single projectile and over .45 caliber. Thus my Brown Bess carbine can go with as well.
This baby shoots a .715" lead round ball at only 1000 fps and requires 100 gr. of powder to do so, but it is FUN. With a bit of muck about one can pull the charge and reload with shot or replace shot with ball. It takes practice to be proficient at 50 yards and somedays I won't take a shot past 25 yards. If using shot 25 yards is about the limit as one should use charges of no more than 1¼ oz of shot and 85 gr. of powder. It has taken squirrel and groundhog but no deer yet.
My choice is a combination of the modern and "period" hunting rifles. About 17 years ago, I bought (from MidSouth Shooting Supply) a Thompson Center Arms New Englander (now discontinued). Mine is a .54 caliber gun with a 1-48" twist rifling and a TC hunting tang sight. Yes, another aperture sight. I do like them! It has slim lines so that it carries well and the recoil isn't at all bad due to the design of the stock and the broad buttplate. Apparently, I like the rifle too as I've never been moved to get another, newer, different rifle.
For me, such hunting is about the challenge and so, while the rifle groups well at 100 yards, I tend to think in terms of 75 yards as my working maximum. The gun is accurate. When loaded with patched round ball and 60 gr. of Pyrodex RS it is accurate enough to take squirrels with headshots at up to 40 yards. The rifle "hangs" well for such shots, too. However, my hunting load is 90 gr. of Pyrodex RS or GOEX FFg with the same patched round ball OR 100 gr. of either propellent with a Buffalo Bore 325 gr. or Hornady Great Plains conical. So, this rifle is roughly the equivalent of the .45-70 black powder express load of the 1890s. Not bad that!
As you can see, I do use some modern conveniences such as the TC Quick Shot for the conical bullet loads. I use the Blue and Gray Quickloads for the roundball loads. The little belt bag is sufficiently large to carry about 10 loads which is more than enough for a days deer hunting (I've never fired more than 2 shots). the knife is a Russell Canadian Belt Knife made by Grohmann in Pictou, Nova Scotia, Canada. I really like my knife and bought it from a sporting good store in downtown Monterey, CA in 1974. I've carried that knife around the world but it is still in excellent condition.
Can't hunt today but for the rest of the week and NEXT week! Whoo hooo!
This year, the law has changed to allow smoothbore guns that otherwise meet the criteria of single barrel, single projectile and over .45 caliber. Thus my Brown Bess carbine can go with as well.
This baby shoots a .715" lead round ball at only 1000 fps and requires 100 gr. of powder to do so, but it is FUN. With a bit of muck about one can pull the charge and reload with shot or replace shot with ball. It takes practice to be proficient at 50 yards and somedays I won't take a shot past 25 yards. If using shot 25 yards is about the limit as one should use charges of no more than 1¼ oz of shot and 85 gr. of powder. It has taken squirrel and groundhog but no deer yet.
Nearing Year's End
Well, we're coming to the years end. Only a few (15) days left in 2004 and there have been many interesting things that happened this year.
My love of the lever action rifle has re-awakened and I am encouraged to find some of those guns that I always wanted when I was a kid but never found due to circumstance OR had and let go.
The first rifle was the first I bought this year and I got it from a forum member. Lever action rifles, particularly those made before the current legislated spate of add-on safeties, are difficult to find in this area. They can be found but I think that the majority either sell them to family and friends or hold on to them! When Lubbockdave offered this one I was on it! Of course he'd shot it a lot, apparently with .38 Specials (and kept the chamber clean) and it was well broken in and slick! I immediately installed a Williams Foolproof Receiver Sight (you might notice that I have this habit!) and went to the range. I quickly discovered that the rifle was accurate and fun and the .357 Magnum cartridge in the rifle is a winner. My load for this rifle is 15 gr. of Hodgdon's Lil'Gun under the Remington 180 gr. SJHP lit by the CCI550 primer. This load produces about 1675 fps and is adequate for all Virginia game to about 100 yards. Loading 18 gr. of Lil'Gun under the Hornady 158 gr. FP/XTP also lit by the CCI550 primer produces 2000 fps! This is the load for those who want to maximize velocity while retaining the suitability of the rifle for deer and the FP bullet holds together better than the HP version of the XTP.
The second rifle illustrated is actually the last I purchased this year. I found it on Gunbroker.com with a "Buy It Now" price of $300 but a minimum bid of $250! I bid the minimum and nobody else bid on it! This is an outstanding price for my area and I was offered $300 at the shop when I picked it up.
I'd always wanted a Mountie but, when I was a kid, you didn't spend money on what you did not NEED. Dad had a .22 I could use and I didn't have the money for one. When I turned 18 and had money I did buy a .22 but it was a Winchester M320, a bolt gun with a detachable magazine (and I still have it!). Yes, I already had a Williams Foolproof and mounted it. I then rushed to the range to try it out. At this point, I'm using the Winchester PowerPoint and it did very well at the range. Even with the factory bead sight, I was able to shoot groups no bigger than a squirrel's head at 25 yards. I think it will do better than that. It does have one flaw in that the tube magazine catch needs some work but it functions well (and is smooooooooth) and is accurate and I'm glad I bought it.
The third gun from the top, the Marlin 336T is a straight grip version of the rifle I had bought in 1970 (or rather my DAD bought for me). I liked that gun (also with a Williams Foolproof) but foolishly traded it off. The .30 WCF (.30-30 Winchester) cartridge needs no description by me. My load in all 3 of my .30-30s is 30 gr. of IMR 3031 under a 170 gr. FP lit by the CCI200 primer. I get 2100-2200 fps from my rifles. I killed my first deer (which dropped where it stood) with the rifle I owned earlier and I've got complete confidence in this rifle. After all, it will put a magazine into just 2½" at 100 yards even though the factory bead subtends the target bull at that range. I think it is a great gun.
The fourth gun is a Winchester M94 in .30 WCF. This gun was built (shipped) in 1943 and is a flatband, i.e. the front band is flat rather than curved. the gun was probably produced so that people could hunt for food during the rationing period of WWII. It isn't marked as such and so it is unlikely that it was used by the bridge or railroad guards. I traded a sofa for it in 1977 and when I got it it had a pine 2x4 that had been carved, very roughly, into a stock. It still worked but needed a new carrier spring. I also had it reblued and installed the Williams Foolproof. This is a great gun and because the front bead is smaller than the Marlin, it is easier to hold and shoot 2-2½" groups at 100 yards. I have killed deer with this rifle and after my divorce it was my only deer rifle.
The fifth and bottom rifle in the photo is a Browning 1886. Made by Browning as a reproduction of the Winchester 1886 and chambered for the .45-70 Government cartridge this is a Saddle Ring Carbine (SRC). I bought this one from another Leverguns forum member and it is a good one indeed. NIB when I got it I've already carried for a whole deer season and the stock has picked up the inevitable nick or two. Not to worry, I've already got a Williams Foolproof to mount but await the end of the deer and Christmas seasons before taking it to my gunsmith for drilling and tapping. Not much to say about the .45-70 cartridge either as it is well know and much has been written. I'm currently shooting the Federal factory 300 gr. "express" load (for which the gun is zeroed) or my reload equivalent. I wanted to get this gun for elk and/or moose hunting (if the opportunity ever presents itself) and for that purpose I think I will load a good 400 gr. bullet at about 1800 fps. I imagine that that will be all the recoil I will want!
These are wonderful rifles but I will be seeking three more. I like having examples of everything.
The first of those rifles I've yet to buy are a clone of the Winchester M92 in .45 Colt set up for me by Steve of Steve's Gunz who will buy a rifle or carbine at wholesale, set it up and ship to my dealer.
The second of those rifles is more up in the air. I'm thinking that I'd like a Savage 99 and would prefer to get one in .358 Winchester. I'd also like to get a Winchester M71 in .348 Winchester. These two cartridges are almost identical in performance. This makes the decision very difficult so I'm hoping that I get some clarity as I approach the time when I can actually afford one!
I could do it all with the rifles I have already but we know that being merely practical isn't the point.
My love of the lever action rifle has re-awakened and I am encouraged to find some of those guns that I always wanted when I was a kid but never found due to circumstance OR had and let go.
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| From top to bottom: Marlin 1894C .357 Magnum, Marlin 39-A Mountie .22 LR, Marlin 336T .30 WCF (.30-30 Winchester), Winchester M94 .30 WCF and Browning 1886 .45-70 Government |
The first rifle was the first I bought this year and I got it from a forum member. Lever action rifles, particularly those made before the current legislated spate of add-on safeties, are difficult to find in this area. They can be found but I think that the majority either sell them to family and friends or hold on to them! When Lubbockdave offered this one I was on it! Of course he'd shot it a lot, apparently with .38 Specials (and kept the chamber clean) and it was well broken in and slick! I immediately installed a Williams Foolproof Receiver Sight (you might notice that I have this habit!) and went to the range. I quickly discovered that the rifle was accurate and fun and the .357 Magnum cartridge in the rifle is a winner. My load for this rifle is 15 gr. of Hodgdon's Lil'Gun under the Remington 180 gr. SJHP lit by the CCI550 primer. This load produces about 1675 fps and is adequate for all Virginia game to about 100 yards. Loading 18 gr. of Lil'Gun under the Hornady 158 gr. FP/XTP also lit by the CCI550 primer produces 2000 fps! This is the load for those who want to maximize velocity while retaining the suitability of the rifle for deer and the FP bullet holds together better than the HP version of the XTP.
The second rifle illustrated is actually the last I purchased this year. I found it on Gunbroker.com with a "Buy It Now" price of $300 but a minimum bid of $250! I bid the minimum and nobody else bid on it! This is an outstanding price for my area and I was offered $300 at the shop when I picked it up.
I'd always wanted a Mountie but, when I was a kid, you didn't spend money on what you did not NEED. Dad had a .22 I could use and I didn't have the money for one. When I turned 18 and had money I did buy a .22 but it was a Winchester M320, a bolt gun with a detachable magazine (and I still have it!). Yes, I already had a Williams Foolproof and mounted it. I then rushed to the range to try it out. At this point, I'm using the Winchester PowerPoint and it did very well at the range. Even with the factory bead sight, I was able to shoot groups no bigger than a squirrel's head at 25 yards. I think it will do better than that. It does have one flaw in that the tube magazine catch needs some work but it functions well (and is smooooooooth) and is accurate and I'm glad I bought it.
The third gun from the top, the Marlin 336T is a straight grip version of the rifle I had bought in 1970 (or rather my DAD bought for me). I liked that gun (also with a Williams Foolproof) but foolishly traded it off. The .30 WCF (.30-30 Winchester) cartridge needs no description by me. My load in all 3 of my .30-30s is 30 gr. of IMR 3031 under a 170 gr. FP lit by the CCI200 primer. I get 2100-2200 fps from my rifles. I killed my first deer (which dropped where it stood) with the rifle I owned earlier and I've got complete confidence in this rifle. After all, it will put a magazine into just 2½" at 100 yards even though the factory bead subtends the target bull at that range. I think it is a great gun.
The fourth gun is a Winchester M94 in .30 WCF. This gun was built (shipped) in 1943 and is a flatband, i.e. the front band is flat rather than curved. the gun was probably produced so that people could hunt for food during the rationing period of WWII. It isn't marked as such and so it is unlikely that it was used by the bridge or railroad guards. I traded a sofa for it in 1977 and when I got it it had a pine 2x4 that had been carved, very roughly, into a stock. It still worked but needed a new carrier spring. I also had it reblued and installed the Williams Foolproof. This is a great gun and because the front bead is smaller than the Marlin, it is easier to hold and shoot 2-2½" groups at 100 yards. I have killed deer with this rifle and after my divorce it was my only deer rifle.
The fifth and bottom rifle in the photo is a Browning 1886. Made by Browning as a reproduction of the Winchester 1886 and chambered for the .45-70 Government cartridge this is a Saddle Ring Carbine (SRC). I bought this one from another Leverguns forum member and it is a good one indeed. NIB when I got it I've already carried for a whole deer season and the stock has picked up the inevitable nick or two. Not to worry, I've already got a Williams Foolproof to mount but await the end of the deer and Christmas seasons before taking it to my gunsmith for drilling and tapping. Not much to say about the .45-70 cartridge either as it is well know and much has been written. I'm currently shooting the Federal factory 300 gr. "express" load (for which the gun is zeroed) or my reload equivalent. I wanted to get this gun for elk and/or moose hunting (if the opportunity ever presents itself) and for that purpose I think I will load a good 400 gr. bullet at about 1800 fps. I imagine that that will be all the recoil I will want!
These are wonderful rifles but I will be seeking three more. I like having examples of everything.
The first of those rifles I've yet to buy are a clone of the Winchester M92 in .45 Colt set up for me by Steve of Steve's Gunz who will buy a rifle or carbine at wholesale, set it up and ship to my dealer.
The second of those rifles is more up in the air. I'm thinking that I'd like a Savage 99 and would prefer to get one in .358 Winchester. I'd also like to get a Winchester M71 in .348 Winchester. These two cartridges are almost identical in performance. This makes the decision very difficult so I'm hoping that I get some clarity as I approach the time when I can actually afford one!
I could do it all with the rifles I have already but we know that being merely practical isn't the point.
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