At the Range with the Browning 1886 SRC

As some might know I had to install the Williams Foolproof this past spring. Well, I finally got the gun to the range at Hite Hollow to verify zero. After a bit of mucking around she and I figured it out and instead of doubles put 5 (2 Federal factory 300 gr. and 3 of my duplication reloads using the Sierra 300 g.r JHC) into the target at 100 yards. Those are the 5 inside the 10-ring. All the other shots were playing about with the sights and some other loads. This WAS shot from the bench resting my elbows on the bench and not off a bag or mechanical rest. The group actually measures 1.5" center-to-center extreme spread. I am fairly pleased to have shot this group with the Williams Foolproof issue aperture and original front sight. This load of 54 gr. H322 under the 300 gr. Sierra JHC and lit by a CCI 200 it should do ok for Virginia whitetails. This load, like the Federal factory, gives just a bit more than 1800 fps to the 300 gr. projectile.


I'm going to work up a load (probably start with the classic Keith recommended load) for the 405 gr. and see how that prints in relation to the 300s. That will be a bit later, I've some other guns to shoot!

Compare the above target to the best I could do with the open sights...

The Remington Model 8 - .35 Remington

My Remington Model 8 is chambered for the .35 Remington. I inherited it from my father. Dad inherited it from his father who inherited it from, so far as I know, the first owner/user. That was "Uncle" Dave and Uncle Dave was the gunny guy of that generation but he wasn't really an uncle. He liked the old stuff and guns like I do and like me he was willing to spend money on good guns and hunting. Uncle Dave's gun has a Lyman receiver sight, the factory rear sight has been removed, and is sighted for the Winchester factory 200 gr. Silvertip load (a box of which I still remember from my youth). My dad had to have a slip on recoil pad as the length of pull was entirely too short for his frame. Grandpa had the same slip on pad but his stated reason was that the gun kicked too hard without it. I don't know who put the pad on, but somehow I think it was Uncle Dave as he also put a pad on his Fox Sterlingworth 12 ga. I don't use it and the recoil doesn't bother me.

The Remington Model 8 is a Browning design. The first semi-auto sporting rifle produced by Remington, it was introduced in 1906. Discontinued in 1936 after 80,500 had been produced, the gun was produced in 4 chamberings, .25, .30, .32 and .35 Remington. It was also produced in 6 grades, No.1 Standard, No.3 Special, No.4 Peerless, No.5 Expert, and No.6 Premier. My gun is the Standard. The Model 8 was replaced by the Model 81 (chambered in .300 Savage, .30, .32 and .35 Remington) from 1936-1950. About 55,000 of the Model 81 were manufactured by Remington. The design was also used by FN but I'm unsure of production numbers. One seldom sees one of the FN guns here in the US.

Introduced in 1906 in the Remington Model 8 autoloading rifle, the .35 Remington is one of the few pure woods cartridges that can be considered successful. In addition to the Model 8, this excellent cartridge was once available in Remington Models 81, 14, 141, 720, 600, and 760, as well as the Winchester Model 70, Standard Arms Models G and M, the Mossberg Model 472 and a slide action rifle once made by Savage. Presently available in the Marlin Model 336 lever action, Remington Model Seven KS bolt action and the Remington XP-100 and T/C Contender handguns, the .35 Remington is still a favorite of those who believe it kills deer and black bear quicker than the .30-30 Winchester. Whether or not this is true is the stuff classic campfire debates are made of.

The Model 8 is recoil-operated has a rotating bolt and double, opposed locking lugs. The gun fires from a fixed 5-shot magazine (it is NOT detachable!) and is equipped with a bolt hold-open that engages after the last shot is fired. The autoloading action was made more revolutionary by the incorporation of a barrel that was shrouded in a full-length jacket. When the gun is fired, the barrel moves backward inside the shroud. It is a long recoil operated gun, not gas, like the Browning Auto-5.

Designed in a day when travel by train or bicycle was common, the 8-pound, 41-inch carbine was built on a take-down design for ease of transport and cleaning. Take down is accomplished by removing the forearm to access an integral barrel wrench. Once loosed, the wrench releases the barrel. As the barrel, including chamber and the open sights, remain in one piece, this feature does not negatively affect accuracy.

Even today the .35 Remington is second only to the .30-30 in popularity among those who prefer to head for the woods with a short lever action carbine hanging from their shoulders. Many years ago the .35 Remington was used on bigger game, but it is seen at its best when used on deer, black bear, and wild boar at ranges not exceeding 150 yards or so. At greater distances, the little .35 is handicapped by its moderate velocity and moderate accuracy from most of the rifles in which it has been available. However, when fired in a bolt action rifles such as the Winchester Model 70, Remington Model 600, and Remington Model Seven FS, the .35 Remington is as accurate a cartridge of similar caliber.

Links:
- The Great Model 8 & 81

Winchester 1200/120/Ranger/1300 Shotguns

A recent request for info by a forumite prompted me to write this response.

Well, I have a 120 (aka Ranger) on which I've mounted a 1200 riot barrel. The difference? The ejector, a spring which rests across the left inside receiver with a portion held by a cut in the barrel assembly, is longer. I had to deepen the cut in the 1200 barrel a bit to let the ejector spring work properly in both barrels. Works great. The action is pretty good and these guns are so similar to the semi-auto version that one can swap the barrels between them. The semi-auto barrels work fine on the pumps but the pump barrels make the semis into a sort of straight-pull bolt action.

Dad used to have a 1400, the semi-auto, in 20 ga. and it was a killer on the skeet range and in the dove field.

and

Of all the guns of that period, those 290s and such were a part of that period, these seemed to require the least support. We had a 1400 in 20 which we bought USED. Choked skeet, we put nearly 30,000 rounds through it and the only problem was the vent rib which had to be re-attached after 20K of our shooting. This was bought from the operator of a skeet range so there's no telling how many rounds were through it.

and

I got the 120 used as well (for $60), bought the 1200 barrel used as well for $25 and have put probably 2000 rounds through this gun. No problems.

They can be a pain to work on. Just take out the trigger group one time and look at it.

The guns were designed and manufactured during Winchester initial modular phase and they have "that look" about them what with the metal and wood finish being identical to that of other guns of the period and the really ugly impressed "checkering". The smooth wood on my gun's stock is preferable despite being of an inferior hardwood and not walnut.

Like the .22 rimfires of the period, such as the lever/pump/semi-auto guns, these do have the reputation of being gunsmith's friends for all the repair time they logged. I've not experienced that, as I noted, but others no doubt have and it got a lot of press. Most people, especially the really gunny among them, with the apparent decline in standards/quality and the dropping of the revered Model 12 for this stamped/pressed/extruded thing. I think this rejection of all things post 1964 from Winchester is what is behind that and it certainly wasn't helped by those lemons that made it out of the factory.

In any case I like my gun, have made it a home defense gun (showing how reliable I think it is) and modified it some. I tried the Pachmayr (when I was going through my rubber phase) Vindicator grips along with the matching forearm. I retained the forearm but realized the butt-stock would be necessary to shooting by anyone in the family other than myself and it was reinstalled. I then installed a Side-Saddle shell carrier.

Tac Star, the maker of the Side-Saddle, is now a division of Lyman Products. This is hardly a new concept. The Russians fitted the 1866 Berdan single shot breechloading rifles with a block holding cartridges like this a way back when. The new iteration is a springy sort of rigid, high impact, plastic that bolts onto the side of several models of pump and semi-auto shotguns using existing screw holes. The concept is good, works and provides an additional 6 rounds immediately to hand on the gun.

Tac Star also produces a magazine extension. As the normal, as issue, shotgun holds 5 rounds with the plug removed, having the option to load 8 is a big increase in capacity. Add that to the side-saddle and 14 rounds, this of 12 ga. buckshot, isn't to be taken lightly. Certainly it is sufficient to repel most home invasions (provided you can access the shotgun when it happens). It is certain to give one some measure of confidence. My wife likes seeing it standing guard in the corner of the room or by the door whenever there is an escape from the local prison or jail.




Hobie's Winchester M120 ready for Home Defense.

More on Customer Service - AJAX Grips

Well, since I received the backorder notification and in turn declined backorder and requested a refund I've heard NOTHING. Linda Farris, I'm disappointed in you. Someday you'll google your name and here it will be, a record of a dissatisfied customer of Ajax Grips because you couldn't respond to a customer e-mail. Sad, isn't it. Let's see, that's 2 weeks now, nary a word.

The Detective Special Seems, Well, Special

Finally got to shoot the DS today. Ammo was Federal Gold Medal 148 gr. wadcutters. I went down to Mom's pond and shot at walnuts floating thereon. Lots of fun and rapid feedback. Shot about 48 rounds, one-handed, two-handed, weak-handed, SA, DA, and centered 5 of the slightly-smaller-than-a-tennis-ball walnuts and tore chunks from the sides of several others. Range was 10-25+ yards. This is what I love about 3" guns. They are a major step up in sighting ease over the 2" guns. The gun seems to give a bit more bounce than the M36 but nothing one can't handle with a little training. I like this gun more and more.

2nd Set of Grips for the Detective Special

Received the second set of grips for the Detective Special. Herretts but not what I expected. In other words, not what was shown in the photo. Oh, they are worth what I paid, and new as represented but they aren't compact as the others would have been. I think I'll be staying with the current set.

Concealed Carry and the Auto (or Truck)

I read a topic in a forum which questioned how best to carry in one's favored mode of transportation. The premise was that the normal, on the body, carry method was both uncomfortable in the car (and not sitting at your desk, behind a table eating?) and the gun was inaccessible so where and how does one carry in the car? Rather how does the CAR carry your "concealed" handgun? Of course, I've got some thoughts on this.

First, let us acknowledge that the reason one has a Concealed Handgun Permit (CHP in VA) is to permit one to carry without unduly alarming the average person and without alerting the criminal to your extra ability for self defense. The surprise factor that one can use from drawing a concealed and heretofore unknown weapon on a criminal can in and of itself cause cessation of the crime without the necessity of shooting the criminal. This is an advantage that shouldn't be willingly or easily discarded.

Lets move on to concealed carry on the body. Every body is different. Different shape and measurements of length, girth, etc. Each person needs to find the most comfortable AND secure method of carry for their body. Trends, fads, status and fashion have no place. You either want to carry a handgun concealed or you don't. It is either considered a necessity or it isn't. Now, presuming you've done that, i.e. found the most comfortable and secure method of carry for you, let's move on...

Let's go out to the car. What's the first thing you notice about your car/truck/van/SUV? It is big, much bigger than you and it weighs more than you do, many times more. Likely it weighs many times more than an attacker who is outside the vehicle. That's pretty important to my view of the situation posited. You see, once you get in the vehicle and the doors are locked it becomes a weapon. One with the advantage of mobility. You can flee in the vehicle. You can push aside an attacker who isn't in a vehicle of his/her own. You may be able avoid injury simply by rolling up the windows although that depends on the attacker and on what vehicle you have. In any case a gun becomes even more of a last resort for self defense. So, lets move to those scenarios in which the vehicle is breached, stopped, and the attacker is in the vehicle or somehow forces you from the vehicle.

Well in any scenario in which the last circumstance is true, that you've been forced from the vehicle, you are simply out of luck (SOL) if you've unholstered and let the car carry for you. You likely will not have access to gun and will have to use other more inventive and improvisational methods of self defense. The "car carry" is looking pretty bad at this point, isn't it?

OK, so you're still in the car but so is the attacker. WHICH of you is closer to the gun? Which has easier access? Can you employ the gun on the attacker? Would it be better for you to flee the attacker (and now of course you're out of the vehicle, with or without the gun). Look at your vehicle. Imagine the attacker in every seat position. How would it actually play out? Be honest. Would you be able to maintain control of the gun and employ it against your attacker?

Let's look at it a different way. Remember, this is concealed carry. It isn't sometimes concealed or open carry. It is carrying a weapon/handgun such that nobody knows you have it. Now, when you get in the vehicle you have to unholster the gun and put it elsewhere. Can somebody look into your vehicle to observe this? Do you have to do it outside the vehicle in order to reach the selected stow point on the vehicle? And then when you get out of the vehicle you have to reholster. Another opportunity for somebody to see that you are carrying concealed. Remember, it doesn't have to be a "bad guy" that can burn you and make your day a pain in the rear. Any concerned citizen could report your behavior to the police. You can bet that a "man/woman with a gun" report will be promptly answered. Do this outside a commercial building, bank, store or some such and you might have a very unpleasant experience despite your CHP permit/license. And remember, that this public (VERY public) exposure "makes" you as well. Who knows who will stop and gawk at the sight of the police taking down the man with a gun? You don't and it could be a bad thing indeed. Remember, if the criminal knows you carry he's now got an advantage that was formerly yours.

The other thing that bothers me is that every time you unholster the gun, every time you load, unload, or manipulate the gun, you increase the possibility that something will go wrong. I don't care who you are, if you handle a mechanical object often enough you will make a mistake. Making a mistake with a gun can have some irreversable consequences beyond mere embarrassment. Add to this that you might be in a hurry to get in, or out of, your vehicle to get wherever it is you must be going and you increase the odds of something unpleasant happening.

So, what do I recommend? I recommend that you learn some evasive driving techniques, that you carry on your person from before you leave the house until you walk back into the house, and that you never unholster your gun unless you absolutely must to go into a prohibited zone or to turn your gun over to a police officer. If this means that you need to change holsters (even expensive holsters) and how you dress and how comfortable you are when driving, I think you should do so. Or, you can give up concealed carry...

Customer Service Continued

Given that I'd received the backorder notice, I emailed Customer Service (an oxymoron?) at Ajax to cancel my order. That was yesterday about noon EDST and I've not heard a word in reply. I wonder why... This isn't customer service. I should know, I've answered 5 such e-mails for the business at which I work and processed 2 orders. It should be a simple thing to do, unless of course, a single order doesn't get the attention that a wholesale order receives. Here, the individual gets EXACTLY the same attention and care that a wholesale buyer receives. A customer is a customer and VALUED. I don't feel valued by Ajax right now.

Customer Service in the Gun Accessories Business

Does it exist? Ummmm.

Anyone reading my blog/journal of my shooting experiences will note that I've bought/traded into a few guns since retiring and that I've gotten some accessories for them. Recently, I've acquired two revolvers, a S&W M34-1 and a Colt Detective Special. Both guns required product support of one kind or another.

One product I "required" was a Tyler-T grip adapter. I had already ordered one, via mail, for my M36 3" (it has yet to arrive 6 weeks later) and had heard that they were having a problem getting the anodization done and the products were delayed. I called in an order (and finally got somebody on the phone) for a polished Tyler-T which arrived within a week! While they deny it, apparently they ARE having a problem getting their anodization done. Let me ask you, is this company giving good customer service? On the one hand they CAN ship a part quickly. On the other hand they can't be truthful about supply of some parts (anodized in this instance) and won't change the order...

The other products required were grips for the 34-1. S&W factory "banana" grips ordered via internet from CDNN arrived within a week. Grips purchased on eBay from an unknown to me seller likewise arrived within the week. I think that this is good customer service which I think is characterized, in part, by rapid accurate shipping of purchased items.

Then I got the Detective Special. Those ugly Pachmayr Compacs have their place but in this case they have to go! Unfortunately, a detailed search for vendors of factory or factory like minimalist grips turned up very little. This may be a case of having to have it custom made despite the large numbers of these guns which were produced. I asked, on several forums and among friends, for recommendations. Now we're talking mixed results! For any given vendor there is no unanimous opinion. All sellers will elicit a range of response.

This can't be good. It doesn't help the sellers/vendors distinguish themselves from their competition, it doesn't help the buyer make a choice and it certainly doesn't engender any confidence on the part of the buyer. I know that I delayed my purchase order because of those conflicting reports.

Finally, I submitted an order for grips to 2 sources. Gun Parts Corporation got an order for an Agent grip which appears to be correct for my grip frame. Also getting an order was Ajax Custom Grips. Now, due to some strongly conflicting reports I'm on pins and needles waiting to see what I'll get. Ajax has been raked over the coals in some forums. I've got my fingers crossed! Note that I've received a backorder notice from Ajax for a 2-3 week wait.

NOTE: I also found that Eagle Grips makes a series called Regular and will do these in Rosewood or Ebony and checker them for $20 extra. Perhaps this is where I'll end up...

Now these are my current and on-going experiences but one reads, in various forums, of the experiences of others. Most of the time the firearms related companies give excellent customer service. Sometimes they seem to have failed but we later discover that the customer was doing something they shouldn't or not doing something they should. Sometimes we find that clearly a particular company is making every attempt to defraud the customer and the small business that does this goes out of business shortly thereafter. I don't think that is the case with either company named, but such business practices are at the very least irritating.

New Grips on the Detective Special

Due to the kindness of strangers, namely one Greg G. of Louisiana, I have these grips which appear to be for a late model Detective Special but which Greg apparently had on a Police Positive Special (PPS). They fit my gun (I didn't realize they also shortened the grips on the PPS) and well. They fit my hand well, too. The HKS speedloaders pictured are correct for the DS and not the equally usable speedloaders marked for the K frames.

These grips also greatly improve the appearance of the gun. I like the gun so much I'm actually thinking of sending it to Colt for a refinish. It does have some slight damage to the blue where it apparently rested on a it's side in a dresser drawer.

I like this gun. It is lighter and feels more compact than the 3" K frame but also gives one the feel of a full size gun. I may need to find one of the 3" .22 LR Cobras...

How do You Define Hunting?

You need to see this about a "game" rancher and game ranching in general. Visit also the Real Hunters home page. Is this how you define hunting?

The behavior shown in the video is just about as bad as it gets in how one treats wildlife. It disturbs me that Jimmy Houston allowed himself to be associated with such things but I can't say I'm surprised. My cable company no longer provides the channel with such shows for free so I don't watch them any more. When I did, I noted several such things. Cameras set up to use terrain to mask feeding/bait sites, deer coming right by the stands in unnatural behavior, and even the arrow bouncing incident. Can you believe that the fellow turned and said what he said with a straight face? My least favorite is Jackie Bushman.

If you know some other sketchy hunting shows, send me an e-mail about it and I'll post them here.

Waiting, waiting...

If anyone cares (do these folks care about customers?), I'm still waiting on my black anodized Tyler-T grip adapter for the J-frame S&W. MAYBE only a couple of more weeks. I think that would make 9 weeks for delivery. Oh, they said they had it but they had to get it anodized. At the same time they denied there were delivery delays due to problems getting these things anodized.

Not to say that Ajax is any better. Got a backorder notification today. Apparently the grips must be made. 2-3 weeks there.

I'm hoping the Herretts I bought from a fellow in New City (not NYC), NY will get here soon and I can continue with my plans and use of the Colt Detective Special. I'm supposing that I'll be ordering a Silver Dollar holster from Simply Rugged with the inside-out option and third belt slot for cross-draw carry. I hesitate to order a Tyler-T for the gun...

Also a book seller failed to tell me that they had cancelled an order and there I was wondering when the order would arrive. Ordered from another seller. Fool me once... It is one thing to have to cancel an order, it is another to fail to tell the customer. That is NOT good customer service. Well, I did find another copy and now I'm waiting on that...

Meanwhile, my wife is STILL waiting for me to become bored with this hobby! Me, I'm just hoping they have shooting in heaven.

Top Ten Reasons Men Prefer Guns to Women

#10. You can trade an old 44 for a new 22.

#9. You can keep one gun at home and have another for when you're on the road.

#8. If you admire a friend's gun and tell him so, he will probably let you try it out a few times.

#7. Your primary gun doesn't mind if you keep another gun for a backup.

#6. Your gun will stay with you even if you run out of ammo.

#5. A gun doesn't take up a lot of closet space.

#4. Guns function normally every day of the month.

#3. A gun doesn't ask, "Do these new grips make me look fat?"

#2. A gun doesn't mind if you go to sleep after you use it.

And the number one reason a gun is favored over a woman....

#1. YOU CAN BUY A SILENCER FOR A GUN

Amazing Archery

These folks are Korean and all I can say is cho-sum-ni-da! You've got to see this video which includes one archer making a fabulous shot. The slow motion is interesting as well because it shows how an arrow flies and why spine is so important.

The Koreans have long been known as archers. I'm glad they're still able to do this. I imagine I'd be doing that if I still lived there as gun ownership is nearly impossible.

NOTE: I apologize for the "other" content on the page. I didn't notice it at first...

LTC Jeff Cooper (USMC, Ret.) Has Died

The grand old man of practical pistol shooting, warrior in the cause of gun rights, essayist supreme has crossed over the river to rest in the shade of the trees. Our condolences to the family, we do indeed understand your personal loss.

Guns and Ammo Tribute

Jeff Cooper, 86; Firearms Expert Set Standard for Pistol Technique
By Dennis McLellan, Times Staff Writer
October 1, 2006




Jeff Cooper, a firearms expert who formulated the widely used "modern technique of the pistol" and founded a highly regarded firearms training center in Arizona, has died. He was 86.


Cooper, an author and longtime Guns & Ammo magazine columnist who had experienced health problems in recent years, died Monday at his home near the training center on Gunsite Ranch, his family said.


A big-game hunter and retired Marine Corps lieutenant colonel, Cooper founded what was originally called the American Pistol Institute on Gunsite Ranch in the Sonora Desert just west of Paulden, Ariz., in 1976.


The training center expanded from teaching pistol techniques to covering military carbines, shotguns, submachine guns, hunting rifles and various other small arms. Now called Gunsite Academy, it boasts an estimated 40,000 graduates, including law enforcement officers, military personnel from around the world and civilians.


Cooper, who wrote several books on firearms and was one of the original writers for Guns & Ammo, sold the training center in 1992 but continued to live on the property.


"He's an icon in the field," Gunsite Academy owner Owen Mills said. "Probably, in the use of small arms, he is on par with John Browning, the inventor of modern American semiautomatic pistols."


Cooper, Mills said, "codified the use and deployment of small arms for personal defense."


Cooper's modern technique of the pistol grew out of his involvement with two groups he organized in the mid-1950s, the Bear Valley Gunslingers and the Southwest Combat Pistol League, which held matches in the Big Bear area and other locations.


"Jeff's contribution to all this was that he was able to observe what other people were doing and see what worked," said Ed Head, operations manager at Gunsite. "His particular genius was to turn it into a particular teaching methodology."


The modern technique of the pistol, which was later branched out to other small arms, features five elements, including the Weaver stance, named for Jack Weaver, a Los Angeles County sheriff's deputy who used two hands to grip the pistol, which created isometric tension to steady it, and used the gun sight.


"Before that, everybody had been hip-shooting — shooting with one hand, without the use of the sights," said Head. "It made a big difference."


The modern technique "has been widely accepted by all the law enforcement agencies in the world," including the Los Angeles Police Department, Mills said. "The man's probably responsible for keeping more soldiers and law enforcement officers alive than anyone in the world."


He added that Cooper's codification of firearm safety rules is "universally accepted."


Cooper, said Wiley Clapp, former handgun editor for Guns & Ammo, "has been referred to as the father of modern handgunning — accurately, I think. He is the guy who developed the technique of using a handgun defensively, the technique that is almost universal in both police and military circles and civilian circles.


"If you go to the movies and see Tom Cruise fighting his way through the bad guys … in the way they hold the pistol, the way they fire multiple shots, all of that is a somewhat Hollywood-ized version of the modern technique. The position they're generally in is a Weaver.


"So this thing that one ultra-conservative, right-wing retired colonel started in the mountains of Big Bear is so permeated in our culture that they're using it in the movies and so forth."


John Dean "Jeff" Cooper was born in Los Angeles on May 20, 1920. As a Marine during World War II, he served on the battleship Pennsylvania and later conducted what he described as "clandestine services" during the Korean War.


Cooper, who was discharged from the Marines in 1955, earned a bachelor's degree in political science from Stanford University and a master's degree in history from UC Riverside. From the late 1950s through the early '70s, he taught history part time through a community college and at the high school in Big Bear.


His books include "Cooper on Handguns," "The Art of the Rifle," "To Ride, Shoot Straight and Speak the Truth," "Sports Car Annual," two volumes of "Gunsite Gossip," "Fireworks" (a collection of essays) and the memoirs "Another Country" and "C Stories."


After Mills bought the center from another owner in 1999, Cooper returned to teach master's classes, quitting for health reasons in 2003.


His column continued to appear in Guns & Ammo, however, and he also continued to meet with Gunsite students who would visit after classes on Friday afternoons.


He'd greet them in his spacious, high-ceilinged living room, whose walls are adorned with game heads, swords and other military artifacts. Then he'd take them to his downstairs armory, where he'd hold forth on guns, politics and other topics.


Cooper, who served as the first president of the International Practical Shooting Confederation, also served on the National Rifle Assn. board of directors. In 1995, he received the Outstanding American Handgunner Award.


Cooper is survived by his wife of 64 years, Janelle; three daughters, Christy Hastings, Parry Heath and Lindy Wisdom; five grandchildren; and five great-grandchildren.